Big Burke announcement

^ It is a good conspiracy theory.

What the… Weird, I wonder how a picture I took several years ago of a friend riding down East Bowl is the one featured in Jim McMurchy’s Facebook post/link to the VTDigger article on Burke’s page?

I’m actually legitimately curious.

Zand said:

One step closer to NELSAP every day. Why do I get the feeling Jay bought it just to run it dry and get rid of any competition to Jay?

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But IMHO it really wasn't that much of a competitor to Jay. And in reality Jay didn't buy it, the Quiros' did with the very visible support of Bill Stenger. I really wonder what Bill thinks about this (not that he has any actual say in the matter).

from_the_NEK said:

But IMHO it really wasn't that much of a competitor to Jay. And in reality Jay didn't buy it, the Quiros' did with the very visible support of Bill Stenger. I really wonder what Bill thinks about this (not that he has any actual say in the matter).

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I think that they will keep their distance.

from_the_NEK said:

I'll cross post this here too...A very sad day indeed.
I heard about this on the radio this morning but I hadn't read the article yet. I got a sick feeling in my stomach hearing it but I can't say I'm completely surprised.

I'm starting to think the Quiros believe they can turn Burke into a destination resort without help and support of the local communities. Once they get their hotel/lodges and Olympic Pool and fancy Tennis facility built, they will no longer need to put up with the dirt bag MTB'rs that have turned the town around in the last 10 years. They will have people travelling here from all over the world to use their facilities.

This entire situation is a giant middle finger to the locals. I can't see anyone really wanting to go work there at this rate.

I really hope Lyndon Outing Club gets some decent snow this year.

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starting NEK?

cut jobs, cut hours, raise prices, raze the Tamarack, raise'n em jay hotels, the list goes on and on. Wonder how long the campground stays open? wouldn't want the dirty MtBikers mixing with the money. It has been pretty clear they are not putting any stock into the locals for anything so why cater to them.

sad to see. they could take it so many directions and this is what they are choosing. NELSAP it, let the community run it.

from_the_NEK said:

But IMHO it really wasn't that much of a competitor to Jay. And in reality Jay didn't buy it, the Quiros' did with the very visible support of Bill Stenger. I really wonder what Bill thinks about this (not that he has any actual say in the matter).

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If you have the time, search Geauga Lake amusement park in Ohio and read about its demise 2 years after Cedar Fair (the owner of Cedar Point... which is 90 mins away and is the largest amusement park in the country) bought it. It's probably just pure coincidence that this Burke saga seems to have the same writing on the wall, but I couldn't help but note the similarities.

Shameless cross-post:

You beat me to it. Call it cutting off your nose to spite your face; burning bridges; showing your true colors; showing the community what you really think of it.

I got an Email this morning with this in it and I was so :angry: but not completely surprised. A few months ago an unnamed source told me that Q2 was fighting with KT and, as the article said, refused to pay up the $20,000 he owed to KT under the written contract. I thought about saying something here about it, but had faith that the voices of reason would tell Q2 to stand down and turn off the afterburners. Apparently they did and Q2 forked over that money, but as the article says, now is taking his ball and going home.

When we all learned that "Jay Peak" was buying Burke, I was so happy. Bill Stenger is a leader in the industry and a good guy. He came in and helped Burke in 2000 when Burke 2000 was trying to open it. He gets it. He has a good PR team and they run a good business. Slowly, however, I learned that Bill Stenger is not a part of this and it's his business partner Mr. Quiros, Sr. Junior needs a job, so Daddy sends him to Burke. It becomes QBurke because, as Q2 said in the WCAX interview I posted, "he needs to prove himself." Prove himself he did; he can move onto other things.


The article shows his true colors. He implies that the previous manager had some conflict of interest with KT, a non-profit community group that had a symbiotic relationship with Burke. Not only that, but the founders were, and still are, Burke employees. He seems to think that he will make it next summer without KT. Hate to tell him, but folks come for KT, not the mountain. QBurke will fail next summer...especially if he thinks that folks will pay more to ride the lower mountain. Also a complete dick move to cut off the very folks who (voluntarily) built the "goose that lays the golden egg" for the mountain in the summer. Most of the trails on the mountain were built by KT volunteers.

And, to be sure that we go down flaming, we make the announcement less than a week before the Christmas Vacation and at the very start of ski season. There are lots of locals who volunteer for KT and ski at Burke. I guess this season locals know how much Mr. Quiros values their business and they will go elsewhere. So much for increasing skier visits. And a lot of out-of-town folks who visit Burke are KT loyals who will hear this news and ski elsewhere. There is a lot of choice for folks in Vermont besides Burke--Cannon is a mere 45 minutes away and they have done a great job listening to their guests.

We are really lucky to have the new QBurke marketing guy here in the forums. I hope that he hears this feedback and can convince Mr. Quiros that this is the worst mistake that they can make on so many levels. The PR show is going to be awesome, and at the beginning of the season nonetheless. I wish the marketing guy luck. He's been around the business a long time and knows that this is just plain idiotic. There's no way you can spin this one.

Burke was, and is, my home. Mr. Quiros is making me miss it much less I guess. I will be sure not to give him anymore money in the future until he brains up.

And my comments are mine, only mine, and not those of AZ or the management.

This classic footage pretty much sums of the situation:



"If this isn't the biggest bag over the head, punch in the face I've ever got, GODDAMNIT!"

"I want him brought from his happy holiday slumber over there on Melody Lane with all the other rich people and I want him brought right here, with a big ribbon on his head, and I want to look him straight in the eye and I want to tell him what a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, fore-fleshing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, d!@kless, hopeless, heartless, fat-@ss, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey s@!t he is. Hallelujah. Holy s@!t. Where's the Tylenol?"

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kingdom-tele said:

starting NEK?

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I know, I guess I'm an optimist. I was really hoping things would head in a direction that was good for the community.

I bet that this was not mentioned at the "focus group" event last spring.

from_the_NEK said:

I know, I guess I'm an optimist. I was really hoping things would head in a direction that was good for the community.

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it still may, who knows, strange decisions for sure

from_the_NEK said:

But IMHO it really wasn't that much of a competitor to Jay. And in reality Jay didn't buy it, the Quiros' did with the very visible support of Bill Stenger. I really wonder what Bill thinks about this (not that he has any actual say in the matter).

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Look at the Burke Mountain FB page and you will see, buried in user comments, is a call-out to JPR about this situation. And, as I predicted, the response from JPR:

Thanks Jim. This decision is not something we were involved with here at the Jay Peak. We empathize and hope there's still room to salvage things prior to the beginning of mtn bike season.

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seems strange they have nothing to do with it. they own it. little Q is free wheeling down there?

Jay should be concerned about the damage being done to any future development in the NEK by QBurke. I hope they are pulling whatever strings they have to kill this thing quickly and quietly.

kingdom-tele said:

seems strange they have nothing to do with it. they own it. little Q is free wheeling down there?

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To be frank, it sounds like Q Sr. had some money to invest, likes this whole EB-5 thing, and figured, "what the hell? I can do what Bill is doing on my own!" I think that Bill's connection is the EB-5 thing and nothing more really.

Thinking about this more.... I think the symbiotic relationship Burke and KT shared was profitable (or should have been) for both parties. The biggest problem that Burke had in this relationship is that the $20 they were making off a lift pass apparently wasn't enough to cover operating expenses (or make an "appropriate" profit). Burke's major problem right now is that it has to rely solely on lift ticket, food and beverage, and equipment rental income to make money. The vast majority condos around the resort have all been privately owned since the mountain was nearly liquidated in 2000. So Burke sees no money from the MTB'rs that are renting out condos.
Maybe writing out that $20K check at the end of the MTB season put Burke in the operational red? Who knows.

noreasterbackcountry said:

Jay should be concerned about the damage being done to any future development in the NEK by QBurke.

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thetrailboss said:

I think that Bill's connection is the EB-5 thing and nothing more really.

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And that is going to be the major issue here. Bill has been trying to promote all of the projects NEK as a big happy regional plan to secure the EB-5 money. If one of the pieces in the plan really starts to stink, how long until it is cut off?

Some with deep pockets often acquire much larger egos before knowledge....

The picture I was talking about above is the one on the VTDigger home page where the recent article are listed. Still weird that they somehow got ahold of a picture I took in 2006 http://vtdigger.org/

thetrailboss said:

To be frank, it sounds like Q Sr. had some money to invest, likes this whole EB-5 thing, and figured, "what the hell? I can do what Bill is doing on my own!" I think that Bill's connection is the EB-5 thing and nothing more really.

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wow, really? If that is the case Mr. Bill is quite the smooth operator, he talked up the purchase and has been talking up the development as if it was his gift to give. It isn't their money being invested I thought. I would say I would be shocked if Mr. Stenger had no idea of this, but nothing really surprises me anymore when it comes to the renaissance.

thetrailboss said:

And, to be sure that we go down flaming, we make the announcement less than a week before the Christmas Vacation and at the very start of ski season. There are lots of locals who volunteer for KT and ski at Burke. I guess this season locals know how much Mr. Quiros values their business and they will go elsewhere. So much for increasing skier visits.

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This goes way beyond locals. I'm from Montreal. I mostly ski Jay peak but I've skied Burke and I hit the kingdom trails regularly in the summer and fall. This pisses me off. I'll make sure I stay off the QBurke trails al-year round. Qburke should realize that they have solid competitions in lift-accessed Mountain biking. What really makes this place so special is the Kingdom trail network, NOT Qburke.