What the heck is going on at Magic?

BodhiMax said:

DoWork - Here is how it happens - someone like the Hermitage/Haystack guy or a company like Intrawest buys Magic. And, yes, as someone who owns a vacation home in the area, I wish something like that would happen.

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Aaaaaaaaahahahahahaha oh man. Talk about missing the point. That would completely ruin the place. Instantly. One high speed lift to the top (the intrawest stamp of legitimacy) or combo-pass the place with Stratton or Okemo and it would be overrun by flailing Joey gapers overnight. Soul = torched in seconds.

I think the goal of any good Magic ownership team would be to avoid over-Strattonization at all costs. I'm totally fine with incremental improvements. Rome wasn't built in a day. If you truly need all that shit to go somewhere though, you will never be happy at Magic and I personally am fine with that. Not that I don't want you to come and enjoy the place, but I certainly don't want them to change their DNA to cater to powder puff resort pussy-types that demand steamrolled slopes and high speed lifts either.

I honestly don't care if they ever openly state their mission. Just the fact that things are happening and shit is getting fixed is enough for me. I'm not an instant gratification person and they don't owe me- or you- a fuckin thing. They've gotten better every year and people who can't understand how this ACTUALLY works will understand that instead of demanding that Magic be turned around overnight by some massive soulless conglomerate.

marcski said:

This idea of yours would ruin Magic's appeal for most who ski there.

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You mean all those skiers that have kept Magic unprofitable (breakeven at best) & on the verge of bankruptcy every year. If you ask me that hasn't worked. Doing the same thing over & over & expecting different results is not sound policy.

The faithful are better than NELSAP. What do you care anyway? You're just antagonistic and shoud stick to your frat house at KMart.

steamboat1 said:

You mean all those skiers that have kept Magic unprofitable (breakeven at best) & on the verge of bankruptcy every year. If you ask me that hasn't worked. Doing the same thing over & over & expecting different results is not sound policy.

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Yeah fuck those people. (Lol)

It's not their fault magic didn't make a ton of dough. They have, however, put up with Magic through those tough early years and many have worked hard to help keep it open. I'd be more inclined to tell the johnny-come-lately snooty bitches that demand the world for the price of a day ticket to fuck off.

deadheadskier said:

Worst idea ever. What do you want? Another Stratton?

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Given the choice between Magic closing and another Stratton, yes, I would prefer another Stratton. I understand where you all are coming from about maintaining the vibe, etc., and I would love to see that not change much as well. But, really though, the place is just one cranky lift inspector away from trouble. If you think a business plan that depends on volunteers fixing things is better than investment that might bring with it some change, that's fine - we can all keep speculating every summer about whether or not Magic is going to be open next winter. Personally, I'd prefer to see some money spent on the place.

I get the impression that most of Magic's faithful would rather see it close and be a turn earning venue if the alternative was becoming a Stratton or Okemo type place. If they wanted that product they'd already be skiing at Stratton and Okemo.

BodhiMax said:

Given the choice between Magic closing and another Stratton, yes, I would prefer another Stratton. I understand where you all are coming from about maintaining the vibe, etc., and I would love to see that not change much as well. But, really though, the place is just one cranky lift inspector away from trouble. If you think a business plan that depends on volunteers fixing things is better than investment that might bring with it some change, that's fine - we can all keep speculating every summer about whether or not Magic is going to be open next winter. Personally, I'd prefer to see some money spent on the place.

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Lol... Well that is quite possibly the most pompous outlook possible. The business plan doesn't depend on volunteers fixing things, that was a function of people stepping in to help when they saw an opportunity to be had for the mountain and simply not giving a shit about what was in it for them other than making the hill a better place. "Value added bonus" is a key term.

Investments have been and continue to be made ya fuckin smartass. You just don't ski there so you haven't seen them. Even if you read the damn thread you'd know there were bigtime snowmaking, grooming and lift upgrades in recent years, but you wouldn't bother with stupid things like facts would you?? It was never a question of opening it was a question of WHO was going to own it when it did... But again, you twist the situation to fit your needs as a habitual internet complainer.

Are you in Steamy's ski club by chance? You sound like you're sitting at the same fire.

In all reality I would take ANY option over Magic closing, but in all reality it had improved vastly every year since reopening- again though- you don't go there so you have no fucking idea what the reality is, you're just high on your own entitlement and ideas about what "should" happen. It's not one cranky inspector away from anything. Again IF YOU FUCKING READ WHAT I WROTE YOU'D KNOW THAT.

I'm really getting sick of people ignoring what I'm saying and substituting their own dilusions of Stratton. What is it about this place that inspires such pompous douchebaggery and rabid speculation?? I can honestly see why MMP just uses this place as one big running joke. The mods are awesome and a few people are cool but Jesus... You guys have seriously got to learn your goddam role and stop assuming you know what is or has been going on. I'm getting sick of correcting people and having them ignore what I say only to let the assumptions snowball. It's REALLY annoying.

deadheadskier said:

I get the impression that most of Magic's faithful would rather see it close and be a turn earning venue if the alternative was becoming a Stratton or Okemo type place. If they wanted that product they'd already be skiing at Stratton and Okemo.

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I would never bite off my nose to spite my face like that. Magic needs to live on, and I just hope it can grow in the right way. I feel it really has but for some, Rome will never be built fast enough. Fortunately there are plenty of alternatives for those people though, and those of us who appreciate the place that Magic is don't have to deal with too many entitled types.

Do Work said:

Yeah fuck those people. (Lol)

It's not their fault magic didn't make a ton of dough. They have, however, put up with Magic through those tough early years and many have worked hard to help keep it open. I'd be more inclined to tell the johnny-come-lately snooty bitches that demand the world for the price of a day ticket to fuck off.

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Do Work said:

Lol... Well that is quite possibly the most pompous outlook possible. The business plan doesn't depend on volunteers fixing things, that was a function of people stepping in to help when they saw an opportunity to be had for the mountain and simply not giving a shit about what was in it for them other than making the hill a better place. "Value added bonus" is a key term.

Investments have been and continue to be made ya fuckin smartass. You just don't ski there so you haven't seen them. Even if you read the damn thread you'd know there were bigtime snowmaking, grooming and lift upgrades in recent years, but you wouldn't bother with stupid things like facts would you?? It was never a question of opening it was a question of WHO was going to own it when it did... But again, you twist the situation to fit your needs as a habitual internet complainer.

Are you in Steamy's ski club by chance? You sound like you're sitting at the same fire.

In all reality I would take ANY option over Magic closing, but in all reality it had improved vastly every year since reopening- again though- you don't go there so you have no fucking idea what the reality is, you're just high on your own entitlement and ideas about what "should" happen. It's not one cranky inspector away from anything. Again IF YOU FUCKING READ WHAT I WROTE YOU'D KNOW THAT.

I'm really getting sick of people ignoring what I'm saying and substituting their own dilusions of Stratton. What is it about this place that inspires such pompous douchebaggery and rabid speculation?? I can honestly see why MMP just uses this place as one big running joke. The mods are awesome and a few people are cool but Jesus... You guys have seriously got to learn your goddam role and stop assuming you know what is or has been going on. I'm getting sick of correcting people and having them ignore what I say only to let the assumptions snowball. It's REALLY annoying.

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Such language......get a grip man....:dunce:

Magic as is doesn't work, until you come to that realization you're pissing into the wind.

It's refreshing to read a post like yours Do Work. My perception having worked in the ski industry for years is indeed, there's an unchecked sense of entitlement that runs part and parcel with condo- ownership and/or a pass purchase. News flash--machines like lifts and cats break down regardless of upkeep and Mo' nature can wreak hell on chairs-- particularly freezing rain.

Yet everyone seems to dismiss natural causation like weather or mechanical failure after their wallet takes a hit. Well, that's a personal decision that comes with some risk. Skiing's an outdoor sport unless you want to ski under a dome. And the risk I'm alluding to isn't always inherent. It's perceived risk. Risk ascribed by insurance companies that no doubt affects the cost of your lift ticket. Maybe if people stopped suing so frequently, demanding refunds for acts of God, and acting like coddled littled panzies the industry's insurance costs would go down and the cost of a pass.

Don't blame the mountain for existing. You get hurt from choosing to ski, you assume risk. Things don't go right-- you fall, get hurt deal with it. People should expect basic safety checks of the lifts they're riding, but no one can anticipate an accident. That's why they call it an `accident.' Funny how many small European ski areas can afford modern lifts. Of course, in Europe, they'd laugh you out of the courtroom for half of the frivolous entitlement suits you see here.

Do Work said:

if you read the damn thread you'd know there were bigtime snowmaking, grooming and lift upgrades in recent years,

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Yep two trails open from the top Chritmas/NewYears. Lifts down the entire season.

We're talking big time.

steamboat1 said:

Such language......get a grip man....:dunce:

Magic as is doesn't work, until you come to that realization you're pissing into the wind.

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Oh it works fine for me! I'm actually very glad it doesn't work for you though hahahaha


My language is simply a reflection on the rage induced by the inability for people to actually listen to anything but their need to postulate on a place they don't even go and therefore don't know a damn thing about. It can be frustrating to do your best to inform people- who immediately ignore what you said and substitute reality for their own assumptions. Infuriating even. Fucked if I care what you think about my language, steamy. Fuckity fuck fuck. Lol.

Do Work said:

over-Strattonization

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Department of Redundancy Department?

I haven't skied Magic (got to change that) but I sense there might be some commonality with my home mountains, Gore and Plattekill. Gore has 105 trails and maybe 5 of them are truly old school. When people (not regulars) push to have Lower Steilhang straightened and bulldozed so you can get a groomer up the headwall I am like... Why. The Fuck. Does Every Ski Experience. Have To Be. HOMOGENIZED.

Do Work said:

I just think it's hilarious how many people ski magic "once or twice when the snow is good" but think they know...

I get the speculation but come on guys- You want two brand new lifts and 100% snowmaking in like a month. What part of incremental improvements don't you get and what dream world are you living in? I mean if you knew Magic like you think you did you'd know just how funny that really is. You just want to show up to a Strattonized Magic this thanksgiving and anything short of that is a complete and utter failure. Riiiiiiiiight. Let me know when you figure out how to make that happen there guys hahaha wow... Just wow.

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I don't think anyone is suggesting that.

The problem is ownership has promised and promised and promised year after year that this will be the year we turn around, Black and Red will both work, and we'll make a lot more snow with our fixed pipes. And then nothing. That and things like that the flag poles can't even get fixed for $300 and the Green lift rusting away half-built leaves sour tastes in the public who then aren't interested to even stop by for a day ticket let alone a season pass.

Magic doesn't need 100% snowmaking. They don't need brand-new lifts. I stand firm to what I said: Black needs to be gone. Others agree even if fixed, it's not bringing confidence to the skiing public. What they do need is a bunny chair, 3 routes at a minimum off the top with snowmaking with a solid base by Christmas and groomed daily.

But lifts is the #1 need. By. Far.

Thing is that over the last 10 years many many lifts in great condition and properly maintained have come down. By my count at least 5 suitable replacements for Black and/or Red have been taken down including a young HSQ for cheap, at least 11 suitable replacements for Green/Sun Corner have come down, and at least 17 suitable replacements for the Little Chair have come down in New England alone. That's not including combining parts to make longer lifts. The 3 Ascutney triples were sufficient to be combined for 1x to top and 1x to Sun Corner. The 2 Stowe doubles can be combined to make a Sun Corner replacement.

Yes, I know the financial situation of Magic hasn't been good. But where are the owners? Why have they consistently handed Magic over to operators without any financial stability? Why hasn't the owners invested anything into the mountain to entice better operators?

With proper investments, Magic will be a cash cow as others have pointed out. It breaks even with 20k visits and if it takes 1% from competitors it can increase it's skiers by what, 16k?

You can't invest operating profits back into massive infrastructure improvements if you're break even at best in great snow years. You can't expect people to be hyped up willing to hand over their hard-earned money for passes if new ownership/operator/whatever's going on now won't even come clean about what needs to be done and what actually is being done for improvements.

Tenney has made a massive following just from a daily video on Facebook.

Magic has been lead by incompetent individuals after incompetent individuals since it reopened. Massive changes in the style of leadership desperately need to be made. And the public won't believe it until it is seen.

What makes me wary about the current situation? The former operating entity was dissolved in March. If current owners/operators/whatever had any cash they would have hit the ground running early Summer. Obviously they had some interest to get negotiations started. If cash was had a used lift could have been installed by opening day. Several times LBO/ASC got one or more lifts installed by the opening day of their first season of ownership. It is possible. SkyTrans and other second hand firms have supplies of used lifts they've bought and fixed up.

Yes business deals can take a while, but it doesn't take all summer to close on the sale of a business or real estate. And the slowness doesn't instill confidence, especially when it's the third operating entity in three years.

steamboat1 said:

Yep two trails open from the top Chritmas/NewYears. Lifts down the entire season.

We're talking big time.

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Again, if you had any frame of reference besides the mega resort you frequent, it might make sense. Carry on tho I guess if it makes you feel important.

Do Work said:

Lol... Well that is quite possibly the most pompous outlook possible. The business plan doesn't depend on volunteers fixing things, that was a function of people stepping in to help when they saw an opportunity to be had for the mountain and simply not giving a shit about what was in it for them other than making the hill a better place. "Value added bonus" is a key term.

Investments have been and continue to be made ya fuckin smartass. You just don't ski there so you haven't seen them. Even if you read the damn thread you'd know there were bigtime snowmaking, grooming and lift upgrades in recent years, but you wouldn't bother with stupid things like facts would you?? It was never a question of opening it was a question of WHO was going to own it when it did... But again, you twist the situation to fit your needs as a habitual internet complainer.

Are you in Steamy's ski club by chance? You sound like you're sitting at the same fire.

In all reality I would take ANY option over Magic closing, but in all reality it had improved vastly every year since reopening- again though- you don't go there so you have no fucking idea what the reality is, you're just high on your own entitlement and ideas about what "should" happen. It's not one cranky inspector away from anything. Again IF YOU FUCKING READ WHAT I WROTE YOU'D KNOW THAT.

I'm really getting sick of people ignoring what I'm saying and substituting their own dilusions of Stratton. What is it about this place that inspires such pompous douchebaggery and rabid speculation?? I can honestly see why MMP just uses this place as one big running joke. The mods are awesome and a few people are cool but Jesus... You guys have seriously got to learn your goddam role and stop assuming you know what is or has been going on. I'm getting sick of correcting people and having them ignore what I say only to let the assumptions snowball. It's REALLY annoying.

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Wow... take it easy, man. Am I the pompous one here, or are you? I actually ski there regularly and, of course, have seen improvements. But, I want to see the place become clearly sustainable and I hoped the news of new ownership would mean more than just incremental improvements. Clearly, you think incremental improvements are all that is needed to get there. I think differently. I'm entitled to my opinion and you're, of course, entitled to your opinion (although, you might try being less of a dick about it, especially if you're trying to help sell the place).

Incremental improvements? The place is going backwards.

BodhiMax said:

Wow... take it easy, man. Am I the pompous one here, or are you? I actually ski there regularly and, of course, have seen improvements. But, I want to see the place become clearly sustainable and I hoped the news of new ownership would mean more than just incremental improvements. Clearly, you think incremental improvements are all that is needed to get there. I think differently. I'm entitled to my opinion and you're, of course, entitled to your opinion (although, you might try being less of a dick about it, especially if you're trying to help sell the place).

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I will always be a dick about it when someone suggests intrawest should buy the place fwiw. Also I'd love to see a huge was of cash invested but I'm realistic enough to know that is not likely. I'd rather be a part of a constructive solution than the bitching choir that isn't satisfied with whatever state it happens to be in. We would all love to see the place really shine, but honestly I'm still happy with the improvements that have been made and if they can stay on that track I'm thrilled. Perspective is hugely relevant in magic's case and the last 8 or so years have taught me a lot about how it works and what to realistically expect. Sorry if I get cranky but people act like they want to know but they don't- they want their assumptions affirmed. I'm also not trying to sell anything, simply inform people. Clearly it's wasted breath.

steamboat1 said:

Incremental improvements? The place is going backwards.

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Lol no it isn't. Keep being a dick though man, it definitely fits you haha

I for one don't find it wasted breath. You bring true on the ground information and committed passion for the place.

My only suggestion would be to ignore the haters. Not worth your time.