ozskier
Member
Sunday River could expand til the cows come home. They just need to increase the amount of skier visits. Plenty of available terrain to work with ;-)
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Jay's West Bowl - Final Major Expansion for terrain in the East?
- Thread starter deadheadskier
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Tin Woodsman
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Re: Probably'll get burned at the stake for suggesting...
Well, let's just say you'd ruin some pretty nice off-piste terrain if any/all of those suggestions were implemented. SB does have a ton of potential, but I think there days of clearing actual trails are over. The only trail I'd like to see there is a traverse enabling skiers to get from the top of Castlerock to the intersection of North Lynx, SBX, and Gate House. That would ease traffic in the base area by keeping skiers on the upper mountain instead of coming down to the base and then heading back up.
And yes, a HSQ where the Valley House double is would be a disastrously bad decision. If these guys add anything to the map, it will likely be in the form of unpatrolled gladed areas like the did at North this summer. My understanding of the Slide Brook situation is that they are continually working with the USFS to see if they can increase their presence in the basin with more glades or tours etc.., but nothing major will even happen in there for sure.
As for other terrain expansions, we have...
1) Jay West Bowl, initial plans for which can be found here:
http://www.dhracer.com/fr/4images/data/media/8/ExpansionAltApart_SM.jpg
2) Bretton Woods - they will be expanding to the mountain on skier's left within a year or two.
3) Cannon - plans in the works to eventually connect to Mittersill and maybe some more terrain in the tram area.
4) Killington - Pico interconnect. Won't happen for at least 5 years b/c ASC has no cash, and K needs to get their base village going first.
5) Stowe - They have plans for a lift between the quad and gondola trail pods. This will likely happen.
6) Gore - Aforementioned interconnect with North Creek Ski Bowl
7) Burke - ain't gonna happen due to lack of money, IMHO
8) Sunapee - want to expand to the west side of the mountain, but that's dead int he water politically right now
9) Whiteface - eventually will expand to the skiers' left of the slides, but that's a good 5 years away I'd say
10) Saddleback - Horn Bowl expansion in the plans, but can the new owners afford this? Anyone know how they've done the last two years?
11) Sugarloaf - AFAIK, the Burnt Mtn expansion is pretty much a dead issue. They simply aren't growing skier visits there and ASC has no cash.
12) Belleayre - Long discussed plans to add more trails, vert, lifts. It's state owned, so we'll see if anything ever gets done.
13) Hunter- Plans apparently in the works to run a lift up the "X" trail on the West side and maybe cut a few more over there. But first priority is the village
14) Loon - South Mtn will be completed within 2-3 years
15) Stratton - I've read recently about plans to add a few "backcountry" type trails to the Kidderbrook Ravine area to skier's right of the Kidderbrook trail. We'll see.
16) MRG - Seriously. Word from a few shareholders is that the Co-op would like to purchase the land where the 20th Hole is (didn't come with the mountain deed and is still owned by Betsy Pratt) and do some more formal glading work in there. No lifts. Nothing on the trail map. But that's a seriously big area.
smootharc said:
Well, let's just say you'd ruin some pretty nice off-piste terrain if any/all of those suggestions were implemented. SB does have a ton of potential, but I think there days of clearing actual trails are over. The only trail I'd like to see there is a traverse enabling skiers to get from the top of Castlerock to the intersection of North Lynx, SBX, and Gate House. That would ease traffic in the base area by keeping skiers on the upper mountain instead of coming down to the base and then heading back up.
And yes, a HSQ where the Valley House double is would be a disastrously bad decision. If these guys add anything to the map, it will likely be in the form of unpatrolled gladed areas like the did at North this summer. My understanding of the Slide Brook situation is that they are continually working with the USFS to see if they can increase their presence in the basin with more glades or tours etc.., but nothing major will even happen in there for sure.
As for other terrain expansions, we have...
1) Jay West Bowl, initial plans for which can be found here:
http://www.dhracer.com/fr/4images/data/media/8/ExpansionAltApart_SM.jpg
2) Bretton Woods - they will be expanding to the mountain on skier's left within a year or two.
3) Cannon - plans in the works to eventually connect to Mittersill and maybe some more terrain in the tram area.
4) Killington - Pico interconnect. Won't happen for at least 5 years b/c ASC has no cash, and K needs to get their base village going first.
5) Stowe - They have plans for a lift between the quad and gondola trail pods. This will likely happen.
6) Gore - Aforementioned interconnect with North Creek Ski Bowl
7) Burke - ain't gonna happen due to lack of money, IMHO
8) Sunapee - want to expand to the west side of the mountain, but that's dead int he water politically right now
9) Whiteface - eventually will expand to the skiers' left of the slides, but that's a good 5 years away I'd say
10) Saddleback - Horn Bowl expansion in the plans, but can the new owners afford this? Anyone know how they've done the last two years?
11) Sugarloaf - AFAIK, the Burnt Mtn expansion is pretty much a dead issue. They simply aren't growing skier visits there and ASC has no cash.
12) Belleayre - Long discussed plans to add more trails, vert, lifts. It's state owned, so we'll see if anything ever gets done.
13) Hunter- Plans apparently in the works to run a lift up the "X" trail on the West side and maybe cut a few more over there. But first priority is the village
14) Loon - South Mtn will be completed within 2-3 years
15) Stratton - I've read recently about plans to add a few "backcountry" type trails to the Kidderbrook Ravine area to skier's right of the Kidderbrook trail. We'll see.
16) MRG - Seriously. Word from a few shareholders is that the Co-op would like to purchase the land where the 20th Hole is (didn't come with the mountain deed and is still owned by Betsy Pratt) and do some more formal glading work in there. No lifts. Nothing on the trail map. But that's a seriously big area.
Re: Probably'll get burned at the stake for suggesting...
One of the big reasons I enjoy forums is to hear from folks in "the know," and Tin Woodsman is one them...thanks!
As for Burke, permits in place, but no $$$. They need to get things steadily in the black first.
Tin Woodsman said:
One of the big reasons I enjoy forums is to hear from folks in "the know," and Tin Woodsman is one them...thanks!
As for Burke, permits in place, but no $$$. They need to get things steadily in the black first.
awf170
New member
Re: Probably'll get burned at the stake for suggesting...
thats what i thought about sugarloaf but it has been packed this year and i think they are seeing records amount of people, i dont really know why so many people are going there, but it would be nice if they added a few more hsq's they have enough terrian just slow lifts imo
Tin Woodsman said:
thats what i thought about sugarloaf but it has been packed this year and i think they are seeing records amount of people, i dont really know why so many people are going there, but it would be nice if they added a few more hsq's they have enough terrian just slow lifts imo
Sugarloaf is probably seeing more traffic thanks to the All 4 One Pass and because folks think that there is more snow up north...esp the line of thinking earlier this season...
Tin Woodsman
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thetrailboss said:
I think trailboss nails it - the Loaf simply had a great season with consistent deep snowfalls. That draws the crowds. As for adding high speed quds - I'm not sure why you would think that by adding high capacity lifts, you'll do anything to alleviate crowding. If anything, it would make it worse. Sure, you'd wait a little less in the lift corral, but then you'd be joined by 1,000 of your closest friends while on the trail - which would you prefer? In addition, since most skiers seem to believe HSQs are some sort of panacea, you'd probably end up drawing more people to Sugarloaf, further crowding up the place.
The only kind of overcrowding that matters is on the trail - that's what you are paying $60 to enjoy, not the lift ride. The only solution to that overcrowding is terrain expansion, not necessarily new lifts.
awf170
New member
Tin Woodsman said:
ya i guess, just that spillway chair drives me nuts, especially when u get a chair that vibrates so much u have to learn foward the whole ride.
thetrailboss said:
what did these plans entail? is their a link available for this "great expansion trail map"?
I'm dissappointed that I didn't get a chance to make it out to Burke this year. Its the only mountain in Vermont, outside of the Bear Creek Country Club (formerly Round Top) and Suicide Six that I have yet to ski. The later two I'll probably never go to, but Burke is definitely in the cards for next season.
Burke's plans? Well, it depends upon "which" plans you're referring too since they've changed so much.
ORIGINALLY the mountain was just upper mountain...the Poma was the only lift...in the late 1960's they added the lift that became the QUAD (double chair that was retrofitted as a quad in the late 1980's). Expansion plans included the entire lower mountain area with lifts, trails, and CONDOS along with that newer lodge. From there the plan was to add a lift and more terrain to the right of the Willoughby Trail area (as you look at the map) thus serving "West Peak." Steep terrain over there..only thing there now are some glades and the fire road.
The other plan, which the previous ownership was acting on, was to add another lift in the East Bowl running from the flat-traverse on East Bowl to the summit (near or above where Wilderness is). There are some great glades that were cut in this area--long runs that cascade into the East Bowl. They were going to become new trails. You can also see how they were going to extend Doug's Drop straight up to Toll Road and add more snowmaking (same with Little Dipper). Talk was of putting a fixed-grip triple in the old Dipper Poma Liftline.
Another original plan was to add two lifts that ran from the BMA area up and then to the right towards East Bowl...this is on the original plan map...got scrapped I believe. :-?
Oh yeah...then we had the German money-launderer who came in and was going to build Bavarian Castles and junk like that...he disappeared and so did those outlandish ideas. :blink:
ORIGINALLY the mountain was just upper mountain...the Poma was the only lift...in the late 1960's they added the lift that became the QUAD (double chair that was retrofitted as a quad in the late 1980's). Expansion plans included the entire lower mountain area with lifts, trails, and CONDOS along with that newer lodge. From there the plan was to add a lift and more terrain to the right of the Willoughby Trail area (as you look at the map) thus serving "West Peak." Steep terrain over there..only thing there now are some glades and the fire road.
The other plan, which the previous ownership was acting on, was to add another lift in the East Bowl running from the flat-traverse on East Bowl to the summit (near or above where Wilderness is). There are some great glades that were cut in this area--long runs that cascade into the East Bowl. They were going to become new trails. You can also see how they were going to extend Doug's Drop straight up to Toll Road and add more snowmaking (same with Little Dipper). Talk was of putting a fixed-grip triple in the old Dipper Poma Liftline.
Another original plan was to add two lifts that ran from the BMA area up and then to the right towards East Bowl...this is on the original plan map...got scrapped I believe. :-?
Oh yeah...then we had the German money-launderer who came in and was going to build Bavarian Castles and junk like that...he disappeared and so did those outlandish ideas. :blink:
bigbog
Active member
Re: Probably'll get burned at the stake for suggesting...
I think the ~60% drop in price from a Sugarloaf season pass from last season(& previous) to a Bronze has had something to do with it.... ASC's brilliant Think_Tank at work again :lol:awf170 said:
Masskier
New member
I wouldn't rule out Burke. They need to expand in order to be successful long term. In my opinion a lot of areas ruined themselves with over developement. Burke knows what makes them so special and unique. With that in mind any developement, I think will be limited and very well planned out.
Masskier said:
I haven't skied Burke myself, but have always heard great things about the mountain - just great fall line skiing over consistent verticle with better than average natural snowfall. It honestly suprises me that it hasn't been bought up by someone with deep pockets and built out over the years. In terms of access - its easier to get to Burke from Boston than almost any hill in Vermont - you can take the interstate practically door to door.
awf170
New member
i found this map of jay peaks expansion and i think it is pretty cool, that is one big expansion
http://www.jaypeakrealestate.com/files/jaypeak_real_estate/amp_for_web_gif003.gif
http://www.jaypeakrealestate.com/files/jaypeak_real_estate/amp_for_web_gif003.gif
eatskisleep
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I have heard about Wildcat possibly expanding.
awf170
New member
eatskisleep said:
they can't because they are on white forest land, only expansion they can do is more locals going up and cutting those sweet glades and creeks.... i really wanna go up there and do some myself
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A great question for the upcoming ski area challenges!eatskisleep said:
awf170
New member
Greg said:
remember that was asked last year by salida
http://skiing.alpinezone.com/articles/challenge/2004/response.htm?resort=wildcat
Regardless, I'd also suggest someone ask either Wildcat or Jay this question...as long as it's not too redundant :roll:
awf170
New member
thetrailboss said:
i would love to talk to jay about the expansion, we should deffently try to get jay
eatskisleep
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YEah but they do have an argument. In order to stay open and competitive to the larger mountain they need to expand.
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