Jay Peak Conceptual Development Plan (2011-2016)

Latest on Jay Peak Development:



Highlights:
West Bowl: 3 new lifts, 4 ski pods, dedicated back country ski terrain, Cross over lift back to Tram Side, Mountain Restaurant, Skier Services Building, Main Day Lodge, Overnight Accommodations, Parking

Stateside: New Base Lodge, Overnight Accommodations, Medical Clinic,New Chairlifts, EB5 housing along Chalet Meadows.

Comments: West Bowl is alot smaller than previously shown. This may be good and actually leave more as "Back Country" skiing.

JPTracker said:

Highlights:
West Bowl: 3 new lifts, 4 ski pods, dedicated back country ski terrain, Cross over lift back to Tram Side, Mountain Restaurant, Skier Services Building, Main Day Lodge, Overnight Accommodations, Parking

Stateside: New Base Lodge, Overnight Accommodations, Medical Clinic,New Chairlifts, EB5 housing along Chalet Meadows.

Comments: West Bowl is alot smaller than previously shown. This may be good and actually leave more as "Back Country" skiing.

Click to expand...

Its funny, both the Jet and Bonaventure chairs look like they'll follow new lift lines. I'd heard about the Bonnie before, but the Jet is a little striking. Perhaps going up UN will allow for better wind protection? Didn't the old plans call for a lift to extend from the base of the West Bowl development to the top of the high speed quad?

It looks like the West Bowl will be its own isolated ski area. It doesn't look like it's going to mix in well with the rest of the resort. I'm not a big fan of crossover lifts, like the previous poster, would it not make more sense to have a lift run from the West Bowl up JFK to meet up with the Flyer. Just a double chair or something, nothing major.

On the positive, looks like the West Bowl trails will be mostly gladed and that's a very good idea.

It's unbelievable how much this place will change in a 20 year window. I don't know what to think anymore. Also, why is there a run right through Timbuktu???????????? What a horrible idea!!!!

eastern powder baby said:

Its funny, both the Jet and Bonaventure chairs look like they'll follow new lift lines. I'd heard about the Bonnie before, but the Jet is a little striking. Perhaps going up UN will allow for better wind protection? Didn't the old plans call for a lift to extend from the base of the West Bowl development to the top of the high speed quad?

Click to expand...

The plan is to replace the Bonnie with a six pack which will go up Power Line to St Georges Prayer, the same alignment as the old Bonnie double.

The Jet Triple will be replaced with the old Bonnie. I hadn't heard about the new alignment but you are right. It looks like it goes up UN.

The T-bar will be no more and replace by the old Jet Triple up Lower Can Am to serve as a beginner lift.

As far as the West Bowl Lift they wanted a lift that could be used by beginners to go from West Bowl to Tram Side. If it went up to Ulers then it would not be good for beginners. Besides a lift from West Bowl to Ulers would cut through some of the best woods on the mountain.

dalecaluori said:

Also, why is there a run right through Timbuktu???????????? What a horrible idea!!!!

Click to expand...

I didn't even notice the trail changes. Upon closer examination:



A new trail around Timbuktu
Haynes Widened
Hells crossing relocated to line up with Heavens road to give easier access to the Jet
Angles Wiggle Changed
Upper Milk Run Entrance changed
Green Beret Exit changed

I can't say I'm a fan of any of these changes. On top of the Timbuktu Groomer, the rerouting of Green Beret is especially troubling to me. I love Jay the way it is. What sets it apart is the terrain, it looks like they're just trying to become an intermediate mountain. They should be proud of the awesome terrain they have instead of trying to modify everything. What's wrong with being known as an expert mountain? Something to aspire to...

Leave it alone!

I take it that the red lines indicate replaced or new lifts, right?

So it is "Back to the Future" in the sense that the Jet and Bonnie will go on what were the original lift lines back in the day--the UN I believe used to be the old T-Bar and the Powerline was the old double.

Unlike most here, I have no problems with a run on the other side of Timbuktu. That glade gets hammered for reasons that any one in the know understands. Its one of the worst condition glades in New England. That new trail will have some unintended traffic consequences. But its a logical place for another trail and will probably make Timbuk ski much better but perhaps other options not as good.

The Jet replacement on the map looks like a lot of tree removal between Jet and UN. That is unfortunate as there is already very little in the way of separation between those two trails. With aggressive snow making always happening on Jet, I can't help but wonder if that will eventually become a "super trail".

I LOVE the idea of West Bowl as its own area. I didn't know they were going to make that its own base area with parking and a lodge. Freaking sweet! Not much they could have really done with that lift given the general topography of the area. Bet that will feel like a nice secluded trail pod.

Its really staggering how much Jay has already done and still plans to do. Foreign money seems to have been very good to Jay and I am glad we can reap the benefits.

dalecaluori said:

I can't say I'm a fan of any of these changes. On top of the Timbuktu Groomer, the rerouting of Green Beret is especially troubling to me. I love Jay the way it is. What sets it apart is the terrain, it looks like they're just trying to become an intermediate mountain. They should be proud of the awesome terrain they have instead of trying to modify everything. What's wrong with being known as an expert mountain? Something to aspire to...

Leave it alone!

Click to expand...

I think you are reading a little much into this, no? They are putting in a trail on the other side of Timbuk (okay, some tree skiing will be lost) but they are putting a ton more gladed terrain in over at West Bowl. A reroute of Green Beret means they are ruining awesome terrain and turning the mountain intermediate? Huh? I can understand your preference on not changing, but you are kinda stretching a bit. I am not saying that all change is good, but the mountain was a much difference place dozens of years ago and much has changed for the better. Personally, I think if they eliminate the double fall on lower Green Beret and make it a straight show, I think it will be an improvement. Prolonged double falls suck.

One oddity I noticed is the "white snow" showing the trails does not have the option on Kitzbuelel colored in. I can't imagine they would want to eliminate terrain. The second entrance into Milk Run seems a bit odd. Kinda pointless. Maybe they think they could get another entrance with a different aspect better covered with snow?

Any ways, with the addition of West Bowl and all the additional glades over there (on map and off), I can't even begin to think of anything negative to say even if a few unneeded "improvements" come along with the plan. Jay continues to be a bizarre enigma. Building up its non-skier resort facilities while also continuing to define itself as a "skiers mountain" and expanding its terrain. What other mountain is planning on adding five new lifts in five years? When you think of the limits of expansion most other mountains have come across, this is a sensationally large pod expansion and deserves recognition as such.

Is that drawing to scale? If so, those new lifts don't look very long. What would be the vert over there? It looks smaller than Jet. Why have 2 lifts side by side? It seems really weird.

I hope its not to scale and the actual terrain is more expansive than it seems.

Either way its exciting to have the expansion. I hope its reality soon.

Some interesting ideas here.....can't wait to see what materializes.

Am I the only one that thinks this massive capital infusion is high risk? Between the hotel and lodge and hockey house and golf course and lift improvements, and etc... etc....

I know they want to become a 4 season destination and step it up to be like the "big boys" etc..., but the fact remains Jay is in the middle of nowhere. Actually, IMO from the skier's standpoint that's ironically one of the best things it has going for it, but from the standpoint of maximizing revenue, it seems a risk spending all of this $$$$.

BenedictGomez said:

Am I the only one that thinks this massive capital infusion is high risk? Between the hotel and lodge and hockey house and golf course and lift improvements, and etc... etc....

I know they want to become a 4 season destination and step it up to be like the "big boys" etc..., but the fact remains Jay is in the middle of nowhere. Actually, IMO from the skier's standpoint that's ironically one of the best things it has going for it, but from the standpoint of maximizing revenue, it seems a risk spending all of this $$$$.

Click to expand...

A lot of the money is coming from overseas investors on the EB5 Visa program, from what I understand. I am sure Jay is ponying up quite a bit of their own funds as well. But they sure aren't footing the entire bill on this project. I think the fact that they are in the middle of no where is exactly the reason for so much of the expansion... so folks have something to do besides ski (especially if there is a wind hold or bad weather). Most folks here don't need that stuff. But folks that don't need that stuff are not the folks keeping the industry, for the most part. Don't forget, it already is called "Jay Peak Resort". It ain't like Jay is MRG or anything.

BenedictGomez said:

Am I the only one that thinks this massive capital infusion is high risk? Between the hotel and lodge and hockey house and golf course and lift improvements, and etc... etc....

I know they want to become a 4 season destination and step it up to be like the "big boys" etc..., but the fact remains Jay is in the middle of nowhere. Actually, IMO from the skier's standpoint that's ironically one of the best things it has going for it, but from the standpoint of maximizing revenue, it seems a risk spending all of this $$$$.

Click to expand...

Not saying there isn't risk (always risk), but they got funding from the EB5 program. This program should minimize risk and significantly increase return. Through this program Jay Peak has aquired around $200-250 million in funds.

UVSHTSTRM said:

Not saying there isn't risk (always risk), but they got funding from the EB5 program. This program should minimize risk and significantly increase return. Through this program Jay Peak has aquired around $200-250 million in funds.

Click to expand...

That's incredible money to be able to sink into a ski resort these days. Jay is in a unique situation but other resorts would kill for that.

BenedictGomez said:

Am I the only one that thinks this massive capital infusion is high risk?

Click to expand...

Certainly high risk. But what's our time horizon here? Isn't this a 5yr+ time horizon? I think part of this is addressing the issue of the ice house and water park will require many more lodging option which currently aren't available right there at the resort. I think they've done a great job over the last few years and certainly are taking the right approach in my mind of building a true 4 season resort.

I wonder when Jay is required to pay back the 500K per individual it received from the EB5 investors.

That's a big compenent in determing the 'risk' of the development they are undertaking.

TheBEast said:

Some interesting ideas here.....can't wait to see what materializes.

Click to expand...

My take on it too.. I'm down with "interesting" expansion.

a 6-pack????

A 6-pack up Powerline???? Im probably in the minority but I happen to love Powerline as it is today. Maybe it's the solitude, maybe part reminiscence for the old double, maybe because all my skiing friends hate it. I dunno, but a liftline up that run will kill it, for me at least. And separately, Im happy to let Vail, Stratton & Europe have all the world's 6 packs. Sigh...

deadheadskier said:

I wonder when Jay is required to pay back the 500K per individual it received from the EB5 investors.

That's a big compenent in determing the 'risk' of the development they are undertaking.

Click to expand...

Not sure if it needs to be paid back other then the investors or their kids getting b-lined for a Visa. I believe they can get added return if the resort does well as such, but if the resort is doing that well, I am sure the Jay Peak owners will have no problem paying. Also I have not read all the requirements of the EB5, but I wonder if it works similar to grants/bonds in which the person/company recieving the bond/grant must also higher a certain number of employees per 100's of thousands of dollars. I know I have seen places in the past turn down these type of grants/bonds because even though the money was nice, there was no way to higher the amount of people required to secure such bond/grant. Let me be clear, I by no means am saying I am right in the above mentioned, just a guess from what I had read here and there.