Big Burke announcement

[Big Wave Dave]

Yeah. It's such a major problem the state released all the funds.

You can make all the allegations you want but the powers that be are not in agreement. Carry on Señor Quixote.

 

[Big Wave Dave]

They have run the mountain into the ground with their poor management and it will never recover. Q-F***-U*.

Dude. Burke went to auction not that long ago and it was almost killed. If you think this is the bottom of the barrel you haven't a clue.

 

[freeski]

The land purchase for the hotel; start there.

 

[River19]

So all internet blustering aside, here the mountain is after by all accounts a horrid ski year both weather wise and Qperations wise..............hotel was not open one day during the heart of the ski season, missed all key holiday weeks etc. and terrain has been tough to maintain this year.

The onsite F&B biz has been "meh" at best by all accounts with obvious signs of budget whack-a-mole decisions being made.

What needs to happen to turn this thing around? How can the mountain avoid a significant drop in season pass sales? I wouldn't be the least bit surprised for season pass sales to be down at least a third or more for 2016/2017.

Maybe soft opening on the hotel for the bike season in June and get your crap together from a service perspective....dig a second pond, upgrade some pump capacity etc. What does the path to success look like at this point knowing they took an amazingly bad case study and doubled down on the bad in the past 4 months?

 

[Big Wave Dave]

You mean like above where I said the outstanding issue of the land deals between the EB 5 and Quiros? Yup got that one, amazing, I didn't even read all 2000 detective like posts!

Again, the state, which actually has all the information, released all funds for the hotel. So, you may have smoke, but those with all the evidence (which you admit you don't have) don't have fire.

Speculation fails in the face of contrary, concrete actions. Your comments on an Internet board are speculation. The state paying th invoices is concrete action.

 

[thetrailboss]

There is another article about the hotel in today's Caledonian Record. Stenger stated that he is paying the contractor over time and expects full payment in four to six weeks.

Wow. Unreal. If they don't have enough investors to pay for the Hotel then they certainly are not going to be doing any other projects soon.

 

[thetrailboss]

Dude. Burke went to auction not that long ago and it was almost killed. If you think this is the bottom of the barrel you haven't a clue.

That was 16 years ago.

 

[thetrailboss]

What are you, a librarian or something? $55 million construction projects go over budget all
the time. It's called the real world, look into it sometime.

And I would note Davis again in the Cal Record squarely and emphatically blames the state. But you guys just keep going with your playground jokes on Ary.

If you read the latest articles on it you will see that the issue was not the State but the fact that Stenger and company ran out of money. The State said that they gave them EVERYTHING that was in the escrow account.

Stenger trotted out the State excuse to save face and buy time. That was in November/December. Besides, Shumlin et al are NOT at all popular and are lame ducks, so there was no loss there.

Many of us have suspected, and said, that all does not seem right here. Many of us also noticed the delays and other issues. It is clear that they did not fully fund the Hotel and got it started with the hopes that they would get the money. Now, like their other projects, they have run out of money.

 

[thetrailboss]

You mean like above where I said the outstanding issue of the land deals between the EB 5 and Quiros? Yup got that one, amazing, I didn't even read all 2000 detective like posts!

Again, the state, which actually has all the information, released all funds for the hotel. So, you may have smoke, but those with all the evidence (which you admit you don't have) don't have fire.

Speculation fails in the face of contrary, concrete actions. Your comments on an Internet board are speculation. The state paying th invoices is concrete action.

If you are saying that "all is well" with the entire Stenger/Q EB-5 operation then you either don't know of the pending SEC Investigation or are ignoring that fact. Yes, the State released the money for the Hotel because that portion was fine and the expenses were legit.

 

[Big Wave Dave]

That was 16 years ago.

And? It was a rebuttal to someone who said Burke was not coming back. I went to that auction. Burke was dead. Since then, there have been a large amount of investments. No sane person could think it is worse today.

Heck I'll take Q over the live grenade that was Ginn and Lubert Adler. I trust EB 5 over PE any day.

 

[River19]

And Newport is looking awesome by the way........glad they started that without funding or a real plan.....

 

[thetrailboss]

And? It was a rebuttal to someone who said Burke was not coming back. I went to that auction. Burke was dead. Since then, there have been a large amount of investments. No sane person could think it is worse today.

Heck I'll take Q over the live grenade that was Ginn and Lubert Adler. I trust EB 5 over PE any day.

What was wrong with LA? Yes, Ginn had their issues but they did not fire the entire mountain management and substitute it for the JV, hell, not even the Freshman team to run the place. They also sunk a lot of money into the place.

So here's the real question: let's say this continues and they either declare bankruptcy or put it on the market. Tell me WHO would be in line to purchase it?

16 years ago a certain guardian angel rose to the occasion for a certain ski academy to buy and run the mountain. I highly doubt that he and that institution have any interest or resources to run it now with a huge empty hotel.

 

[Big Wave Dave]

If you are saying that "all is well" with the entire Stenger/Q EB-5 operation then you either don't know of the pending SEC Investigation or are ignoring that fact. Yes, the State released the money for the Hotel because that portion was fine and the expenses were legit.

It's not pending its ongoing. Where have I said all is well? Clearly there are issues. But would you not agree the hotel is far and away the largest aspect of the build, and in the face of the state releasing ALL funds that is a positive sign?

What would you rabid wolves think of the state hadn't released funds?

The answer to that question is why I am right here. You all could not be any more negative when facts on the ground as we know them, not speculate, indicate the hotel project is aboveboard.

And Trailboss you also know th office administering the escrow account is a respected, diligent body. You have to give its release of funds the credence it deserves, and none of you are.

I reserve any comments on management and ops to you guys, like I said, been their twice this year with my granddaughters and everything seemed fine. We even had drinks and food in the tamarack and survived. And yeah, my word, the hotel is the penultimate case study in bad management.

 

[thetrailboss]

It's not pending its ongoing. Where have I said all is well? Clearly there are issues. But would you not agree the hotel is far and away the largest aspect of the build, and in the face of the state releasing ALL funds that is a positive sign?

What would you rabid wolves think of the state hadn't released funds?

The answer to that question is why I am right here. You all could not be any more negative when facts on the ground as we know them, not speculate, indicate the hotel project is aboveboard.

And Trailboss you also know th office administering the escrow account is a respected, diligent body. You have to give its release of funds the credence it deserves, and none of you are.

I reserve any comments on management and ops to you guys, like I said, been their twice this year with my granddaughters and everything seemed fine. We even had drinks and food in the tamarack and survived. And yeah, my word, the hotel is the penultimate case study in bad management.

In the interest of full disclosure, I used to work for the former BISHCA and know a lot of folks there still. Their current oversight seems to be working. But my point is that the fact that they disbursed the funds that Q had to pay for the Hotel in no way excuses Q and company of previous transgressions that may not have come to the surface. Is it good? Sure. But we're not there yet.

The State did a terrible job before 2014's complaints against Stenger and Q. Actually, they did NO oversight. How the Commissioner of the Department of Economic Development kept her job is beyond me. They had a clear conflict of interest there. Maybe there will be ultimately no harm in the end but we don't know.

As to the whole "negative" thing, to each their own. I don't think you can dismiss what folks discuss here as mere negativity. Personally, the fact that the QHotel is now 2 almost 3 months BEHIND opening is disturbing. To hear that the reason is that they cannot pay the contractor is more troubling. There were signs of this a long time ago, but some dismissed it as mere negativity. Guess not.

 

[Big Wave Dave]

And Newport is looking awesome by the way........glad they started that without funding or a real plan.....

that's great. this is a thread about Burke.

 

[River19]

that's great. this is a thread about Burke.

Agreed.

Newport came to mind based on some pro-Stenger.org comment above that I didn't feel like going back to reference.

And to your point above, releaseing the funds is a positive sign. Sort of. The released the funds and the hotel can possibly open at a time when no one wants to stay in said hotel as they missed the entire season and pissed off all the new adopters that booked rooms by biting on their #20 Bullshit fly.......only to be reamed in the rear when the Qhotel didn't open.

So yes, while better late than never is all good, but they missed the whole damn season and built even more ill will which I thought really was hard to do.

It is hard to be positive Dave when every time you try to give them the benefit of the doubt they crap themselves.

 

[Big Wave Dave]

What was wrong with LA? Yes, Ginn had their issues but they did not fire the entire mountain management and substitute it for the JV, hell, not even the Freshman team to run the place. They also sunk a lot of money into the place.

So here's the real question: let's say this continues and they either declare bankruptcy or put it on the market. Tell me WHO would be in line to purchase it?

16 years ago a certain guardian angel rose to the occasion for a certain ski academy to buy and run the mountain. I highly doubt that he and that institution have any interest or resources to run it now with a huge empty hotel.

Ha, Lubert backed Ginn's ideas (along with Credit Suisse). Go look at the plans for Ginn Su Mer in the Bahamas. that is why they scared me!

no idea but all the ski area has been lacking consistently is skier visits. the hotel should change that, Kingdom Trails didn't exist in 2000 so its now a viable 4 season area, so I think the value proposition of the ski area is markedly increased since Don Graham (we can say is name right?) saved the place. Any further comment on this would be total speculation on my part, I don't know enough about the state of the ski area management business.

 

[thetrailboss]

Ha, Lubert backed Ginn's ideas (along with Credit Suisse). Go look at the plans for Ginn Su Mer in the Bahamas. that is why they scared me!

no idea but all the ski area has been lacking consistently is skier visits. the hotel should change that, Kingdom Trails didn't exist in 2000 so its now a viable 4 season area, so I think the value proposition of the ski area is markedly increased since Don Graham (we can say is name right?) saved the place. Any further comment on this would be total speculation on my part, I don't know enough about the state of the ski area management business.

For a NORMAL ski resort, I would agree that things should be on the up and up now. For these guys, nope. It's because of their actions. You mention KT as a draw--it certainly is. But the biking community is tight and they certainly know about how Q burned bridges BIG TIME with KT. Also most of the bike traffic are into dirtbagging it. As in camping or cheap places to stay. Not the QHotel. So it remains to see what happens with the Hotel.

As to skier visits, conventional wisdom would certainly be "build it and they will come." But when one considers WHO skis at Burke you, and when you go up there on an average day, you used to see a hell of a lot of green plates and NH plates. I say used to because the bulk of the traffic was locals. Yeah, the same locals who Q has pissed off numerous times. The idea that Q will just get folks to come from Boston or NYC to fill the gap is shortsighted. For decades that was the idea. "After the interstate is done we will be in great shape" then became, "well, after we build more condos we will be in great shape," then it became, "well, put in a HSQ and we will get more folks", etc. The ski market is very, very tight. There is a saturation of ski areas for such a small market. So what he is learning is what we all knew--no, folks are not going to drive further for Q.

Ideally you'd keep your local market and add more visitors to it to get to the coveted 100k skier day mark and beyond. You don't just burn your entire base and expect to rebuild it with visiting traffic overnight. Or as we say in Vermont, "you don't cut off your nose to spite your face."

 

[Big Wave Dave]

Agreed.

Newport came to mind based on some pro-Stenger.org comment above that I didn't feel like going back to reference.

And to your point above, releaseing the funds is a positive sign. Sort of. The released the funds and the hotel can possibly open at a time when no one wants to stay in said hotel as they missed the entire season and pissed off all the new adopters that booked rooms by biting on their #20 Bullshit fly.......only to be reamed in the rear when the Qhotel didn't open.

So yes, while better late than never is all good, but they missed the whole damn season and built even more ill will which I thought really was hard to do.

It is hard to be positive Dave when every time you try to give them the benefit of the doubt they crap themselves.

sure. So how many of the weddings booked at the hotel this summer have cancelled in light of this?

and once again you are choosing to blame Stenger and Quiros here. I blame the state, as does the contractor. Why do you not agree with Jerry Davis that this is a state caused issue?

Who says those whose reservations were cancelled don't blame the state also? Heck, if I was Burke PR I would just send them the Cal Record article.

time will tell but like I have before, bet ya a beer at the Tamarak (sorry, Tiki Bar) that hotel is jammed next winter. My wife also has a friend on the Burke planning board and for what its worth, the hotel was always expected to produce more revenue in summer than winter. All is not hopeless with a single lost winter.

 

[VTKilarney]

no idea but all the ski area has been lacking consistently is skier visits.

And snowmaking.

And a aquatic and tennis training facilities.



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