Used fat skis for first time....I'm a convert...but not in the east....

[skiersleft]

Last week I got the Rossi Super 7's for a good price. The point was to finally add a fat ski to my quiver. I have carvers/racers and several all mountain skis. That covers everything except deep powder days. And by deep I mean deep. Not 3 or 4 inches. So, the plan was to use the Super 7's for the one or two yearly trips out west and for the one or two really deep days I get to ski in the east.

Happy to report I just used the super 7's out west on a powder day. Night and day compared to my mid 80's waist skis. I'm a happy camper. Floated over the snow. Felt like surfing. Can't believe what I was missing.

Now, don't get me wrong. Obviously, the Super 7's would be a horrible choice for a one ski quiver in the east. Heck, it would suck on 98% of the days here. If I
had to pick two skis for the east, I would go with a mid 80's all mountain ski and a narrow carver for the all too often hardpack days. But, when it's deep, it rocks. So, if you can splurge, add something like this to the quiver. I know most here were aware of this. But it was my first time skiing something this fat (115 underfoot). Given that the conditions were ideal for this kind of ski, it blew me away.

 

[deadheadskier]

Careful.

Some people will argue that a 100+ mm waisted ski is the perfect tool for carving Eastern Hard pack!

 

[snoseek]

In four inches of fresh fat skis surf the top while everyone else is hitting bottom.

 

[Smellytele]

In four inches of fresh fat skis surf the top while everyone else is hitting bottom.

Fresh Sierra cement everyone can "float" on

 

[amf]

Hmmm... thanks for your comments! I'm going to Mt Bachelor & was thinking of renting them. Now I know I will!

 

[Cheese]

Hmmm... thanks for your comments! I'm going to Mt Bachelor & was thinking of renting them. Now I know I will!

Having skied both, try the S7 for a few runs then ski the Super 7. Most rental shops will let you swap them out anytime as long as they're in the racks. I think you'll prefer the S7 over the Super 7 in the deep stuff. Unless you're charging and smearing enough to require the extra stiffness, the S7 has a better feel IMO.

In four inches of fresh fat skis surf the top while everyone else is hitting bottom.

On the other hand it's tough to get shoulder deep on fat skis.

 

[Puck it]

98mm is my everyday ski for me. Once you have fat, you never go back!!!!

 

[skiersleft]

Hmmm... thanks for your comments! I'm going to Mt Bachelor & was thinking of renting them. Now I know I will!

Definitely try them. Best decision I've ever made regarding skis.

 

[skiersleft]

Having skied both, try the S7 for a few runs then ski the Super 7. Most rental shops will let you swap them out anytime as long as they're in the racks. I think you'll prefer the S7 over the Super 7 in the deep stuff. Unless you're charging and skidding enough to require the extra stiffness, the S7 has a better feel IMO.

Although I love my Super 7's, I think this is great advice. I got a great price and I had to buy the skis in Vermont without obviously being able to demo in the sort of conditions that you would want to demo them. I agonized over whether to get the Super 7 or the regular S7. Internet discussions about which one is better are legion. I got the Super 7 because I believed that extra stiffness would make them more versatile. If you have a chance definitely demo both.

Ultimately, however, I'm ecstatic I got the Super 7's and I wouldn't change them for anything right now. As the saying goes, if it ain't broke, why fix it?

Enjoy Mt Bachelor. And definitely try the Super 7's!

 

[BenedictGomez]

Careful.

Some people will argue that a 100+ mm waisted ski is the perfect tool for carving Eastern Hard pack!

I call this the "what I own" phenomena.

98mm is my everyday ski for me. Once you have fat, you never go back!!!!

Mine are 90mm, but I still use my 68mm for icy conditions, firm snow, periods where it hasnt snowed in a long-time, and/or early season.

 

[mister moose]

And by deep I mean deep. Not 3 or 4 inches...

Happy to report I just used the super 7's out west on a powder day. Night and day compared to my mid 80's waist skis. I'm a happy camper. Floated over the snow. Felt like surfing. Can't believe what I was missing.

Yeah, cuz 5-6 inches is deep.

Not picking on you SL, because I get the elation of fat skis for someone experiencing what they have to offer for the first time. BUT.....


Tell me, how many of the folks that proclaim how wide boards are so good in powder can also ski over a foot of powder on narrow boards well? So aren't you saying wider boards are easier, not better?

 

[kingslug]

I've got the S3"s which are good for everything but ice..I ususualy bring the Sultans though as they can rip through anything.

 

[Cheese]

Tell me, how many of the folks that proclaim how wide boards are so good in powder can also ski over a foot of powder on narrow boards well? So aren't you saying wider boards are easier, not better?

Do you understand how a shape ski works? When a shape ski is put on edge, the arc between the tip and tail causes the middle to sag while weighted by the skier. Therefore the ski will flex so that it can create a similar arc in the snow and turn. Powder does not have enough resistance and/or a narrow ski does not have the tip and tail surface area to allow the weight of the skier to overcome traditional camber. Therefore a traditionally cambered narrow ski will never arc a turn on powder. The other way to flex the ski into the proper arc is with forward lean but forward lean in powder often leads to submarined tips.

The S7 and Super 7 offer more surface area for float as well as tip and tail rocker so less need for forward lean to flex the ski into a turning arc.

Can I ski a foot or more of powder on narrow boards? Yes, but I'd be skiing powder the way we did 30 years ago. We've since moved on. If I'm going to ski powder the way it is supposed to be done this year (charging, carving and smearing), the physics of a narrow traditionally cambered skis will make it impossible. Snow hasn't changed. Only equipment and technique can adapt to the increased expectations of extreme skiing.

Not only are fat rocker skis easier in powder, they are capable of accomplishing turns never possible on powder on narrow traditionally shaped skis.

 

[mriceyman]

i still got my 80mm all mountains but my new 98mm can carve hardpack better than i would have expected. and they look and feel fat enough not to sink on a pow day. i like having the extra width underfoot.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Do you understand how a shape ski works?

I could be wrong, but I think all he was getting at is that you needed to be a better skier to ski powder on thin skis.

 

[mister moose]

Do you understand how a shape ski works? Yes. When a shape ski is put on edge, the arc between the tip and tail causes the middle to sag while weighted by the skier. Therefore the ski will flex so that it can create a similar arc in the snow and turn. Powder does not have enough resistance and/or a narrow ski does not have the tip and tail surface area to allow the weight of the skier to overcome traditional camber. Not true. Therefore a traditionally cambered narrow ski will never arc a turn on powder. That's odd, I've done it a lot. The other way to flex the ski into the proper arc is with forward lean but forward lean in powder often leads to submarined tips. I don't understand "forward lean" in powder, or how that flexes the ski. When you stop obsessing over seeing your tips, you will be a better powder skier. There is a difference between skiing the surface while planing the ski and skiing over the center of pressure in a fluid environment.

The S7 and Super 7 offer more surface area for float as well as tip and tail rocker so less need for forward lean to flex the ski into a turning arc. Why do you even need 'float,' ie to stay on the surface, in deep powder? If you think you do, you won't understand what I'm saying. In deep powder, the ski flexes from compression because there is no firm surface for the edge to grab at all.

Can I ski a foot or more of powder on narrow boards? Yes, but I'd be skiing powder the way we did 30 years ago. We've since moved on. If I'm going to ski powder the way it is supposed to be done this year (charging, carving and skidding), the physics of a narrow traditionally cambered skis will make it impossible. Snow hasn't changed. Only equipment and technique can adapt to the increased expectations of extreme skiing.

Not only are fat rocker skis easier in powder, they are capable of accomplishing turns never possible on powder on narrow traditionally shaped skis.

You are proving my point indirectly. In western dry powder, skiing in it is different than skiing on it. Both are fun, but I would never advocate giving up the sensation of skiing in the powder. I have arced turns with 68mm skis deep in reverse camber while thigh deep. And make no mistake, I ski wider skis all the time. 85mm has grown to be my favorite width eastern powder day ski unless it is dense cream cheese, and then I'll go wider. But if you think you need fat to ski deep and dry, you are missing a whole aspect of the sport. That has nothing to do with 30 year old equipment.

If what you mean is that fatter skis let you ski slower on the surface for increased manuverability in tighter trees, then I see your point.

 

[Cheese]

You are proving my point indirectly. In western dry powder, skiing in it is different than skiing on it. Both are fun, but I would never advocate giving up the sensation of skiing in the powder. I have arced turns with 68mm skis deep in reverse camber while thigh deep. And make no mistake, I ski wider skis all the time. 85mm has grown to be my favorite width eastern powder day ski unless it is dense cream cheese, and then I'll go wider. But if you think you need fat to ski deep and dry, you are missing a whole aspect of the sport. That has nothing to do with 30 year old equipment.

If what you mean is that fatter skis let you ski slower on the surface for increased manuverability in tighter trees, then I see your point.

Would you agree that there is no way you're going to carve a turn if you don't flex the ski into an arc?

Pull a ski from the quiver and flex it using a hand to support the tip and the floor to support the tail. Remember you have to flex the ski beyond the center line to where the binding is now on the opposite side of the natural arc. Take notice of how much force is on the hand (tip) and the floor (tail) to make this happen. It should be quite obvious that in fluffy powder you are not going to get the kind of back pressure needed to flex the ski. If not, the next test will prove it but likely make one hell of a mess. Take the ski to a full bathtub. Using all your weight at the binding, push the ski horizontally from floating on top of the tub to striking the bottom of the tub. The tip and tail of the ski will always hit the bottom of the tub first (no flex). Water actually offers more resistance than snow so this proves that there is no way you can flex a traditional ski enough to carve on or in powder. You don't have to do this test with a tip and tail rocker ski because it is already flexed into the proper (turning) arc by design.

So the only way you're carving turns with traditional 68mm skis is that you are in contact with the groomed base underneath and flexing the ski on that groomed base layer. Basically skiing like it's a groomed trail with the nuisance of ungroomed snow in your way. This may be fine for you but there is no float or feeling of weightlessness which many feel to be the biggest draw to powder skiing in the first place.

Fat rocker skis allow me to float in the middle of the powder while carving and skidding. Methods of leaning back and wagging the tips or bouncing to initiate turns are tossed in the trash and are replaced with the shape ski technique of railroading. Railroading only works with a flexed ski.

Note: I believe there's a new term for skidding in this months issue of Ski Magazine. I wish I could remember it as it's a good example of something that wasn't possible before the new technology in skis today.

 

[Puck it]

Note: I believe there's a new term for skidding in this months issue of Ski Magazine. I wish I could remember it as it's a good example of something that wasn't possible before the new technology in skis today.

Smearing?

 

[Cheese]

Smearing?

BINGO, thanks!

 

[Cheese]

I typically float with my tips buried



and only plane during the high speed run out after landing a huck.