Wildcat Vertical Challenge

[yeggous]

This is the only spot where Middle Lynx crosses under the Tomcat lift so it has to be the spot. It would make sense though. The lift towers become part of the Lynx trail for a few hundred feet. People can generate a ton of speed in this area. I've seen people fall hard in this spot before.

No, it was not there. It was the very bottom of Lower Polecat where the Tomcat lift crosses. Just after Lynx empties into Lower Polecat and before Catenary. The drop was the bottom-most pitch underneath the Tomcat lift between Lower Polecat and Stay Cat. There was fencing up across about half of it, but not the whole thing.

 

[Smellytele]

No, it was not there. It was the very bottom of Lower Polecat where the Tomcat lift crosses. Just after Lynx empties into Lower Polecat and before Catenary. The drop was the bottom-most pitch underneath the Tomcat lift between Lower Polecat and Stay Cat. There was fencing up across about half of it, but not the whole thing.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.264...e1!3m3!1sOdnrStOIZR8FavzagOoR9w!2e0!3e5?hl=en

 

[Highway Star]

People ski this event very, very fast. I topped out at 68 mph, but I was talking to people who were getting up well into the 70s. Nobody was turning. Imagine 40 people hammering away on Lynx as fast they can possibly ski. The S-turns were the trickiest. The surface was good but rutted up by guys laying down serious trenches.

The latest news is that the guy died. Really tragic.

http://www.necn.com/news/new-englan...ting-in-Make-A-Wish-Fundraiser-295641761.html

Conditions were packed powder everywhere. The groomers were skiing really nice.

I had 12 runs in the first two hours before they pulled everyone off the course. I went back out for two more runs after the debriefing. Around 10:30 I bagged it for the day and drove to work. This way I could avoid burning the full day of PTO.

Stopping the event was very disappointing for me. I had arranged my weekend around it. I hope they do reschedule it and keep the event going in future years. They must be reassessing. I've never seen people skiing at such speeds.

There's a very good reason why they don't hold races and especially speed events on packed powder - ruts and hooking skis.

IMHO, they were asking for trouble holding this event. It's a pretty narrow trail with almost zero barriers or netting. The most serious equipment shown in the video is GS skis, and many people are on just normal skis. Not seeing anyone with DH or SG skis and I know for a fact that people in NH with race backgrounds own those kind of skis.

If you're quoting 68mph, in a normal ski outfit on normal skis, I'd say you are using the Ski Tracks app, and you can knock at least 20-25% off that to get your actual speed - so about 50-55mph. 70mph is nearly impossible to hit without an aerodynamic outfit and DH/SG skis, or straightlining a double black diamond pitch (30 deg plus). If you're not on a race binding (with a din setting multiple points above your level 3 setting) and heavy skis, you're a hair's breadth away from pre-release anywhere above 50mph.

Sending multiple people tucking down a non-race prepped trail on normal equipment, repeatedly where fatigue can be an issue, is downright irresponsible.

Here is the aspen town downhill (note the netting, wide trail, easy course, real DH skis, confirmed 70mph, and semi-aero outfit):

Note: I own two pairs of DH skis, and four other pairs of GS/SG (25m to 35m) sidecut race/metal/sandwich construction midfats, some with lifts or plates, that would be appropriate for this kind of event if it was on packed powder....all have bindings that max out at 16, 17 or 18 din (set to 13 or 14). I've had all of them at or above 60 mph for at least a few seconds, some higher with a fairly aerodynamic outfit. 70+ mph is exceptionally violent.

 

[Highway Star]

Video of 2012, showing skiing about 50-55mph.

 

[Highway Star]

Here is what is looks like to ski and crash at 70 mph, as measured by a calibrated device:

 

[yeggous]

Everyone on that hill knew how to ski well. Yes, it was largely a mix of GS and all-mountain / carving skis. This is not the kind of event that you are going to volunteer for unless you feel comfortable. Fatigue was not an issue as this happened early in the day. By the time they shut down the event I felt like I had just gotten warmed up.

This was the second year that this gentleman had participated. Despite it being early in the event, he knew what to expect and had skied this trail many times before at these speeds.

Wildcat did have a focus on safety. They made sure to emphasize that it was not a race. They closed down the course to the general public and had ski patrol controlling access. Ski patrol was out there with rakes fixing up an area that got quickly taken down to boilerplate at the entrance. They had run this event 11 years in the past without incident. I hope they reschedule and I will be back with bells on. This is not the kind of event that you'll find at the posh resorts. It is uniquely Wildcat.

 

[Abominable]

This sounds like an awesome event, and, like you say, unique (as far as I know). Having said that, terrible tragedy, and I can't see them re-instating the event in good conscience. Not this year, anyway; or not without serious 'soul searching' and perhaps modifying things. Perhaps I'm wrong, but to do so would seem a bit insensitive? Not sure.

As an aside, kind of neat that we can discuss various places on the mountain via google maps.

 

[yeggous]

There's a very good reason why they don't hold races and especially speed events on packed powder - ruts and hooking skis.

IMHO, they were asking for trouble holding this event. It's a pretty narrow trail with almost zero barriers or netting. The most serious equipment shown in the video is GS skis, and many people are on just normal skis. Not seeing anyone with DH or SG skis and I know for a fact that people in NH with race backgrounds own those kind of skis.

If you're quoting 68mph, in a normal ski outfit on normal skis, I'd say you are using the Ski Tracks app, and you can knock at least 20-25% off that to get your actual speed - so about 50-55mph. 70mph is nearly impossible to hit without an aerodynamic outfit and DH/SG skis, or straightlining a double black diamond pitch (30 deg plus). If you're not on a race binding (with a din setting multiple points above your level 3 setting) and heavy skis, you're a hair's breadth away from pre-release anywhere above 50mph.

Sending multiple people tucking down a non-race prepped trail on normal equipment, repeatedly where fatigue can be an issue, is downright irresponsible.

Here is the aspen town downhill (note the netting, wide trail, easy course, real DH skis, confirmed 70mph, and semi-aero outfit):

Note: I own two pairs of DH skis, and four other pairs of GS/SG (25m to 35m) sidecut race/metal/sandwich construction midfats, some with lifts or plates, that would be appropriate for this kind of event if it was on packed powder....all have bindings that max out at 16, 17 or 18 din (set to 13 or 14). I've had all of them at or above 60 mph for at least a few seconds, some higher with a fairly aerodynamic outfit. 70+ mph is exceptionally violent.

It is worth noting that he was skiing yellow Fischer race skis.

 

[deadheadskier]

Not this year, anyway; or not without serious 'soul searching' and perhaps modifying things. Perhaps I'm wrong, but to do so would seem a bit insensitive? Not sure.

If I was one of the organizers, I'd ask the family of the deceased what their feelings were. This was his second year participating I believe. Maybe not, but I'd think that he would want the event to continue in the future.

There's certainly added risk in the event, but this really just sounds like a tragic accident; something that could happen to any one of us during a typical ski day.

 

[dlague]

Organizers stopped the event following the incident

And for years to come due to our litigious society!

 

[VTKilarney]

My bet is that the event turns into a ski-athon but without inducement to ski fast.


.

 

[dlague]

There's certainly added risk in the event, but this really just sounds like a tragic accident; something that could happen to any one of us during a typical ski day.

I agree. I often think of people on this forum and some of the conditions or trails that are skied and at speeds! One edge catch is all it takes!

 

[dlague]

My bet is that the event turns into a ski-athon but without inducement to ski fast.


.

Hope on the Slopes (American Cancer Society), requires that all participants were a FLAIK GPS device. They monitor speeds in the lodge on a screen that everyone sees, if any one is reporting speeds above 30 MPH then they are disqualified.

 

[Highway Star]

It is worth noting that he was skiing yellow Fischer race skis.

Trying to hit 60+ on modern GS skis really isn't the greatest idea IMHO. Any way to find out if they were SG or DH skis?

 

[Hawkshot99]

Hope on the Slopes (American Cancer Society), requires that all participants were a FLAIK GPS device. They monitor speeds in the lodge on a screen that everyone sees, if any one is reporting speeds above 30 MPH then they are disqualified.

Then that is a event that I would never support. I just looked through my past several ski days, and there is not a single run that did not include trees or moguls, where I didn't break 35mph. And usually on the tree/mogul runs, I did on the run out as well.

 

[yeggous]

Trying to hit 60+ on modern GS skis really isn't the greatest idea IMHO. Any way to find out if they were SG or DH skis?

No, I only know that much because I saw it myself. He was using at least as appropriate gear as anyone else, myself included. I don't think the type of skis he had is at all relevant to what happened. Even if he had hit 60+, it is very unlikely that he would have kept that speed all the way to the bottom where he fell.

Tragic accident is certainly the best way to describe this.

 

[Highway Star]

No, I only know that much because I saw it myself. He was using at least as appropriate gear as anyone else, myself included. I don't think the type of skis he had is at all relevant to what happened. Even if he had hit 60+, it is very unlikely that he would have kept that speed all the way to the bottom where he fell.

Tragic accident is certainly the best way to describe this.

What I'm saying is that the odds of a ski getting away from you - hooking an edge, over bending a tail, pre-releasing, etc - increase considerably as you get beyond their design speed and intended turn radius. GS skis are NOT appropriate for this type of event, if you're going to tuck much of it.

 

[deadheadskier]

Highwaystar,

You certainly have a point, but where this accident occurred, I'd be surprised if he was going over 30. 40 max. It was at the very bottom of the mountain where the last turn would be to head for the lift. The pitch before the turn isn't all that steep. Maybe he did ask too much of his equipment as the turn is sharp. We all catch edges from time to time when we are not maximizing our equipment's capability. I actually catch edges most often when I'm not pushing it and I'm skiing lazy.

We'll probably never know, but it's likely he just hit his head off a rock in a bad way with tragic results. You don't have to be traveling at that high of a rate of speed to cause serious damage doing that. Would your DH or SG skis have prevented the accident? Who knows. He could have just gotten lazy with his edge and tumbled over. No way to really play Internet Forensics just by looking at the type of ski he was on.

 

[CoolMike]

Watching the footage from 2012 it makes one wonder how they thought this was OK without netting on the sides of the trail.

50+ MPH is serious business.

There is no way they should reschedule or continue this event.

 

[Brad J]

First this is a tragic accident and my heart goes out to his family, I have known about this event for years and was under the belief that it was part of the rules that there was no tucking ,high speed straight lining allowed and the goal was to just reach the 48 runs by the end of the day. Not 48 at 2:30 with two hours to go. you can run the event easy with a rally format that there is a set time for each run. you can do 6 runs an hour for 8 hours to get to the 48 runs. This would mean a disqualification is you skied to fast. Its a great event that had a tragic ending but I am sure that with a few rule changes it can be run safely for many years to come.