Schilling is done

[ski9]

Good to see the bloody sock phoney probably gone for good. Trashed other players for 'roids, yet was as juiced as the rest AND was on a team who used steroids as their only way to break the Curse of the Babe.

(signed: a Yankee fan)


BOSTON (AP)—Curt Schilling will have surgery on his ailing shoulder Monday, ending his season and possibly his career.

The 41-year-old Boston Red Sox right-hander will have the operation after a rehabilitation program preferred by the team failed to fix the tendon injury that sparked a spring training dispute between doctors about how to treat it.

“My season is over and there is a pretty decent chance I have thrown my last pitch forever,” Schilling said Friday on WEEI radio in Boston.

 

[snoseek]

Good to see the bloody sock phoney probably gone for good. Trashed other players for 'roids, yet was as juiced as the rest AND was on a team who used steroids as their only way to break the Curse of the Babe.

(signed: a Yankee fan)


.

Pretty bold statement in a forum with ton's of sox fans. You're either crazy or just plain stupid-not sure which.

 

[mondeo]

Pretty bold statement in a forum with ton's of sox fans. You're either crazy or just plain stupid-not sure which.

Or in the mood for a good ole-fashioned flame war.

 

[Dr Skimeister]

I still say that the Schilling/Big Unit combo in 'zona a few years back was one the best piching staffs in MLB in years. Right up there with Kofax/Drysdale.

 

[MR. evil]

I still say that the Schilling/Big Unit combo in 'zona a few years back was one the best piching staffs in MLB in years. Right up there with Kofax/Drysdale.

What about the Braves Maddox, Glavin and Smoltz

 

[ski9]

Pretty bold statement in a forum with ton's of sox fans. You're either crazy or just plain stupid-not sure which.

I'm a huge anti-steroid person. I grew up playing baseball and spent every summer at Ted Williams Baseball Camp in Lakeville, MA (eh, Ted never once left his fishing boat in Florida to stop by). I played through college and loved the game like I love to ski. And it's a game about its own history, with records and stats being uniquely important...every June, when a slugger was getting up toward 30 homers, kids used to start really paying attention because 61 was a possibility.

And because of steroids, every baseball record is ruined. Bonds saw to destroying every slugging record. And most pitching records are also just question marks.

And the Yankees are just as much to blame as the Sox.

I sat in amazement watching Bonds hit like a superhero. I cheered for McGwire. Now it turns out they were just a bunch of cheating scumbags who trashed the record books forever...

To use your words, I think people are "crazy or just plain stupid" for not mocking cheaters like Schilling and Ortiz. At least Giambi admitted what he'd done and apologized, as did Petitte. But they are still just reformed cheaters, which isn't much better.

But Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire (and Clemens) should go to a special baseball Hell for destroying the record books. And the Red Sox should be embarrassed about their World Series titles.

Eh, that's all I'm sayin'. Of course, some people have no problem cheering for juiced athletes and find it entertaining. You know, like the millions of people who watch professional wrestling.

 

[FRITOLAYGUY]

Oh hes just jealous because Schilling beat his yankees in 2001 and then again in 2004, say what you want when it mattered he got the job done no matter who the opponent was

 

[jack97]

every sport has its dark side.... look at the Pitt steelers of the seventies, they introduced steroids into the sport. Although I don't agree with it, I understand how competing at a high level will make someone do anything to get the edge on someone else.


IMO, the telltale sign that a player is juiced in baseball is when he makes a dramatic improvement or drop off. Look at a player like Clemens, he had three to four average years before his contract was up with the sox. They low balled an offer thinking he was done, then he goes and dishes out unprecedented numbers at Toronto and NY for an aging pitcher. As for the drop off, noticed the production was off when MLB started testing, yes players can get a masking agent but thats rather sophisticated and they would run a risk whether the masking agent would work. IMO, most juiced players went off there cycle and you can see that on the stats.

As for Schilling, I don't think he was juiced b/c his numbers has been consistent for many years. Can't say for sure w/ HGH for recovery from nagging injuries but I think lots of players in the leagues was doing that.

 

[ski9]

Oh hes just jealous because Schilling beat his yankees in 2001 and then again in 2004, say what you want when it mattered he got the job done no matter who the opponent was

It's cool that you're into professional wrestling types of sports and not the integrity of a game. Yeah, Bonds sure got the job done, too. And my own guy, Giambi, claimed he was dealing with intestinal parasites he got during the opener in Japan, when he was actually just coming down off the roids...

And my own guy, Petitte, was a total hypocrite after swearing to God (he's a born-again) he didn't juice right before going under oath and admitting he'd juiced because of an injury. Yeah, sure, nothing to do with following Clemens and being taken under the Rocket's wing.

Schilling was broken down in his last year with the Phillies in 2000...was traded to the D'Backs and found a wonder drug in Big Units locker and won 45 games in the next two seasons. How does a Schilling fan explain 20 extra pounds of muscle and five extra mph on a fastball for a guy who turns 36?

Schilling is a poster boy for steroid use and statistical anomalies that follow it. And as a longtime coach of youth sports, I think it especially sucks when pro athletes cheat and fans give them a pass.

Lastly, this wasn't a flame, but a lament of the state of the game touched off by the news Schilling's probably done. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone, since one of the greatest ballplayers ever just hit #600 and nobody outside of Cincinnati could have cared less.

 

[wa-loaf]

And the Red Sox should be embarrassed about their World Series titles.

Eh? So the Yankees should be pretty embarrassed about all their championships in the 90s I guess?

I agree steroids are a problem and the sport ignored it for a long time. I'm sure it's screwed up the record books as well. But if everyone is taking steroids isn't everyone on a level playing field? So if a team of steroids players beats a team of steroid players, what's the difference?

 

[ski9]

I agree steroids are a problem and the sport ignored it for a long time. I'm sure it's screwed up the record books as well. But if everyone is taking steroids isn't everyone on a level playing field? So if a team of steroids players beats a team of steroid players, what's the difference?

Are you kidding? Is that just your feeling or is that a more general Red Sox fan perspective of justifying cheating their way to titles?

Wow.

Man, that sounds like the justification given by some high school senior nailed with something in his locker. "Everyone else was doing it..."

Dude, any major leaguer who juiced increased the acceptance of steroids in the minors, colleges, and high schools. Kids have died.

There's one thing when the Austrian XC team is swapping out their own blood for oxygen rich versions (leaving the blooding bags all over the rental place at Park City was just gross), and then there's another where anywhere from 30 to 70% of a pro sports league sets an example by injecting dangerous drugs into their bodies.

Rose banned and not in the Hall? Pffffttt...I'd walk Pete through the front door of Cooperstown and ban any player for juicing after the rules adoption, including Andy, Giambi, and Sheff...and the Sox should feel like a joke for how they won it.

 

[wa-loaf]

Are you kidding?

Yea pretty much, but i knew it would wind you up. ;-)

I don't get why you are singling out the Red Sox. They're not the only ones to win World Series in the last 20 years. Because if you want to discount those then we need to wipe out all records for that time period. The Yanks won 4 title in the last 20 years to the Sox 2, you guys should be twice as ashamed. So get off your hypocritical high horse.

 

[ski9]

Yea pretty much, but i knew it would wind you up. ;-)

I don't get why you are singling out the Red Sox. They're not the only ones to win World Series in the last 20 years. Because if you want to discount those then we need to wipe out all records for that time period. The Yanks won 4 title in the last 20 years to the Sox 2, you guys should be twice as ashamed. So get off your hypocritical high horse.

I understand it's harder for some people to accept that all they were cheering for was a bunch of juiced cheaters. The reason people single out the Sox is the same reason people single out Bonds. Did a guy who juiced and hit 13 homers steal more away from the game than a guy who hit 762?

Hypocritical high horse? That's kind of a stupid accusation considering I'm condemning all the cheaters, but I guess Bonds and Red Sox fans would tend to be defensive and lash out. I don't blame Red Sox fans for pointing out Gary Sheffield roid rages in a Yankee uniform, btw...

Since testosterone and many anabolic steroids were banned by MLB in 2003, I'd say that last true champs were the Marlins, but only because it wasn't technically cheating---just a moral/ethical cheating prior to the ban. But, yeah, it's sort of the post dark ages era for all of baseball.

 

[jack97]

I understand it's harder for some people to accept that all they were cheering for was a bunch of juiced cheaters. The reason people single out the Sox is the same reason people single out Bonds. Did a guy who juiced and hit 13 homers steal more away from the game than a guy who hit 762?

Hypocritical high horse? That's kind of a stupid accusation considering I'm condemning all the cheaters, but I guess Bonds and Red Sox fans would tend to be defensive and lash out. I don't blame Red Sox fans for pointing out Gary Sheffield roid rages in a Yankee uniform, btw...

Since testosterone and many anabolic steroids were banned by MLB in 2003, I'd say that last true champs were the Marlins, but only because it wasn't technically cheating---just a moral/ethical cheating prior to the ban. But, yeah, it's sort of the post dark ages era for all of baseball.

All of the top level sports are dirty.... anabolic steroids are ban but some players use masking agents to fool the test. Or using water based drugs that can be flush out of the system (athletes can time their cycle knowing when they will be tested). The East German swim team was well know for pioneering this. In addition, HGH is something athletes used for recovery, thats something that can not be tested.

BTW, most including myself believe that last years MLB championship was mostly due to good player evaluation (via the free agency), great drafting, minor league development and deep pocket. Another factor to keep in mind is that most of the key players from last year team were young players making minimum wages and fresh from the farm system, where they have a stricter testing policy for the past ten years or so.

 

[Moe Ghoul]

This is the darker side of "Win at any cost" . Some will always seek ANY edge to be "better" than the rest. Is Lasik surgery cheating? Vitamins? Protein shakes? Caffeine? Doesn't that improve performance? Where do we draw the line? What are the exceptions? It gets a little murky. I'm against steroid use, but what about an asthmatic athlete that needs to take steroids on occasion for lung inflammation? And there's somebody out there right now coming up with the next steroid that can fool testing. What if someone develops a steroid with all the positive results and none of the negative side effects? I bet everybody would jump on them in a heartbeat.

 

[wa-loaf]

There's one thing when the Austrian XC team is swapping out their own blood for oxygen rich versions (leaving the blooding bags all over the rental place at Park City was just gross), and then there's another where anywhere from 30 to 70% of a pro sports league sets an example by injecting dangerous drugs into their bodies.

Just reread this part. And why is what the Austrians did any less important than what goes on in pro sports? You think its just the Austrians? There may not be as many participants in the sport but these guys are still setting an example for thousands of hs and college kids out there participating in the sport in the US and Europe. So if it's not a big pro sport it's ok to dope, but just a little gross?

I understand it's harder for some people to accept that all they were cheering for was a bunch of juiced cheaters. The reason people single out the Sox is the same reason people single out Bonds. Did a guy who juiced and hit 13 homers steal more away from the game than a guy who hit 762?

Hypocritical high horse? That's kind of a stupid accusation considering I'm condemning all the cheaters,

You are not, you are calling out the Red Sox as a whole, but when it comes to the yankees, you single someone out, but don't seem willing to condemn the whole team. And that's really my problem with what you are saying.

 

[ski9]

This is the darker side of "Win at any cost" . Some will always seek ANY edge to be "better" than the rest. Is Lasik surgery cheating? Vitamins? Protein shakes? Caffeine? Doesn't that improve performance? Where do we draw the line? What are the exceptions? It gets a little murky. I'm against steroid use, but what about an asthmatic athlete that needs to take steroids on occasion for lung inflammation? And there's somebody out there right now coming up with the next steroid that can fool testing. What if someone develops a steroid with all the positive results and none of the negative side effects? I bet everybody would jump on them in a heartbeat.

IDK, Moe, I'm not sure it's really all that murky. The FIS sure doesn't look at rules as murky, they just disqualify everyone for using something on the banned list. The Brit slalom skier Alain Baxter was one of the more tragic examples, losing his medal for testing for traces of lev-methamphetamine, which isn't even performance enhancing...and it was because he was using the American version of the Vick's inhaler.

But for as heavy handed as the FIS is, they have removed the cheating.

And I do believe the non performance enhancing inhalers have been removed from the banned list, although he won't get his bronze back.

 

[ski9]

Just reread this part. And why is what the Austrians did any less important than what goes on in pro sports? You think its just the Austrians? There may not be as many participants in the sport but these guys are still setting an example for thousands of hs and college kids out there participating in the sport in the US and Europe. So if it's not a big pro sport it's ok to dope, but just a little gross?

You are not, you are calling out the Red Sox as a whole, but when it comes to the yankees, you single someone out, but don't seem willing to condemn the whole team. And that's really my problem with what you are saying.

Take a breath, wa-loaf. The home run king is a joke. The World Series champs are a joke. Bonds cheated, McGwire cheated, Giambi cheated, the Sox broke the Curse of the Babe with juiced players. Bonds is the poster boy and the Red Sox is are the poster team. Bonds accomplishment is meaningless, just like the Red Sox titles.

Unless cheating doesn't matter.

Baseball needs to clean up 100%, with open testing and lifetime bans, but the records are gone forever. Maybe it doesn't bother the casual fan and maybe it doesn't bother you.

The blood 'doping' by the XC skiers isn't as big of a deal to me because athletes can get the same results naturally. Eh, sort of naturally...like when they live in dorms with the extra O2 pumped in, or train as extreme sea levels. What they did was against the rules and they should have been investigated and punished appropriately. I believe it was a cleaning lady who found the bloody bags in the trash.

But if you want to read into it that I'm saying doping in amateur sports is a good thing, well, that's just the take of an offended Red Sox fan, isn't it?

 

[wa-loaf]

So do you agree that the 90's Yankees championships are a joke? That was the height of steroid use.

 

[ski9]

So do you agree that the 90's Yankees championships are a joke? That was the height of steroid use.

The six game series v. the Braves in '96 was likely the last "clean" series, other than some cocaine tucked away in Strawberry's bill-fold.

Knoblauch (of all freaking people) was using and part of the '98 squad...then there was Chili Davis and Mike Stanton, who have been pointed out by former players. And it sure doesn't make it right or even things out that the Padres had a half dozen players juiced.

So, uh, yeah, '98, '99, and '00 are hollow victories for baseball purists, even though the 2000 title was three years before the ban.

Here's something for you to consider wa-loaf: If you were a baseball writer with a Hall of Fame vote, would you vote Bonds into the Hall? Are you rooting for McGwire and Sosa to be first ballot inductees? I ask because any Red Sox fan not wanting the Commissioner's Trophy to be sent back to where it came from has no right to complain about steroid fueled individual 'heroics'.