Killington: What was it? What Does POWDR Want it to Be? You?

[mondeo]

I didn't like this either. It sent the wrong message to the skiers (customer). The issue was that the payroll week started and ended on a Saturday, and that having folks work on a Sunday would screw it up. Now in the Pres Smith days, they'd figure something out to get around that. Instead, the unintended message that was sent was, "well, our internal needs are more important than opening and delivering the product to the consumer."

I'm guessing it was actually fairly smart. The big thing is being able to market opening Nov. 2, closing May 2. A full (minus 10 days after Nov. 2) 6 month season, and into May. People may gripe about the Sunday opening/Saturday closing, but it probably isn't going to have any real impact on ticket sales. So the question is would being open one more day offset the additional costs of having an additional payroll period?

What I want to know is did they take the month off in May as an opportunity to rejigger their payroll schedule? It seems pretty stupid to me to have a seasonal business that operates mostly on the weekends have their payroll schedule set up that way. New business week starts Thursday or something like that.

 

[campgottagopee]

Admittingly, K was the meca of skiing for me while in college (mid 80's) with good terrain and one kick ass party. Then my senior year we ventured to Smuggs where I immediatley fell in love with the place and ended up living there for 4 years. Something about Smuugs/Stowe, the Notch and just the vibe really got my attention and I knew it was the place for me.

Now it's all aboput my little Greek Peak, WF and Gore.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Have you read about all the negative stuff POWDR has done?

Nobody was bitching 5 years ago, or 15 years ago, or even 50 years ago for that matter. .

If your girlfriend was making you miserable for 5 years would you break up with her or stick it out while hoping things get better?

I'm a WF guy, there have been WF haters on this board. They state they don't like it because of this and that and that they are not going back they will go elsewhere.

That's what I don't get about you guys. As a devout won'tist it is against my belief system to give anyone a hard time on forums. I'm just trying to understand why you guys stay and complain instead of going somewhere else.

 

[SkiDork]

If your girlfriend was making you miserable for 5 years would you break up with her or stick it out while hoping things get better?

I'm a WF guy, there have been WF haters on this board. They state they don't like it because of this and that and that they are not going back they will go elsewhere.

That's what I don't get about you guys. As a devout won'tist it is against my belief system to give anyone a hard time on forums. I'm just trying to understand why you guys stay and complain instead of going somewhere else.

Personally, my reasons for staying are:

1) Own real estate there

2) Member of the ski club and love the vibe there, along with the kids competitions

3) Love to hang out with the KZone crew, doing parties and bbq's in the spring etc.

4) Love the actual mountain, size, variety etc.

Still would love to see the old Killington return, so I keep up the pressure vocalization with hopes that POWDR comes around.

 

[JerseyJoey]

If your girlfriend was making you miserable for 5 years would you break up with her or stick it out while hoping things get better?

I'm a WF guy, there have been WF haters on this board. They state they don't like it because of this and that and that they are not going back they will go elsewhere.

That's what I don't get about you guys. As a devout won'tist it is against my belief system to give anyone a hard time on forums. I'm just trying to understand why you guys stay and complain instead of going somewhere else.

Personally, my reasons for staying are:

1) Own real estate there

2) Member of the ski club and love the vibe there, along with the kids competitions

3) Love to hang out with the KZone crew, doing parties and bbq's in the spring etc.

4) Love the actual mountain, size, variety etc.

Still would love to see the old Killington return, so I keep up the pressure vocalization with hopes that POWDR comes around.

 

[millerm277]

I'm a WF guy, there have been WF haters on this board. They state they don't like it because of this and that and that they are not going back they will go elsewhere.

That's what I don't get about you guys. As a devout won'tist it is against my belief system to give anyone a hard time on forums. I'm just trying to understand why you guys stay and complain instead of going somewhere else.

They hate Whiteface, the whole place, the difference here, is that none of the people complaining hate Killington. Actually, I'd say almost every one of them, loves Killington itself. Lots of terrain, good snow, etc....we don't like/hate the people who own/run it and make decisions that run counter to what would be good for the mountain in our minds. That is different than disliking the mountain...

Using someone else's analogy, it isn't your girlfriend is making you miserable for 5 years. It's, your girlfriend is amazing, except for this one giant flaw (or a couple of them) that she could fix easily, and then be perfect, but currently, they take away from how amazing everything else about her is, in your mind.

 

[mister moose]

If your girlfriend was making you miserable for 5 years would you break up with her or stick it out while hoping things get better?

I'm a WF guy, there have been WF haters on this board. They state they don't like it because of this and that and that they are not going back they will go elsewhere.

That's what I don't get about you guys. As a devout won'tist it is against my belief system to give anyone a hard time on forums. I'm just trying to understand why you guys stay and complain instead of going somewhere else.

It's because the GF isn't making us miserable. She just got on this health food kick in the last 3 years, hired a new fitness/diet consultant, and is feeding me tasteless organic this, low fat that, and tofu cheesecake. However, she is my best friend, we share many interests, she challenges me intellectually, she's cute, and a great lover.

I'm hoping I can talk her out of this seaweed and rice diet, or at least let her eat it while I have a steak. I'm trying to keep a long term perspective, but it is hard some days. And yes, I bitch about the food a lot, to anyone who asks. Food is important to me.

How's that comparison?

There is more to Killington than just POWDR. There is the proximity, terain, snowfall, size, access road bars, restaurants, and in my opinion, the best ski shop selection in the East. There is the people I know and the ski house community. It takes time to erode all that.

If Killington's new direction sat well with the town, and their numbers weren't slipping, I think we'd have less to say. But that is not the case. By many measurements, traffic is down and dissatisfaction is up. If this next winter is poorer than average snowfall and the economy is still flat, it will be a cold winter indeed.

 

[deadheadskier]

I didn't like this either. It sent the wrong message to the skiers (customer). The issue was that the payroll week started and ended on a Saturday, and that having folks work on a Sunday would screw it up. Now in the Pres Smith days, they'd figure something out to get around that. Instead, the unintended message that was sent was, "well, our internal needs are more important than opening and delivering the product to the consumer."

As a person who's managed payroll in several positions, having the financial week close on a Saturday in a seasonal business was bad business anyways. By having the week end on a Friday, it's far easier for managers to eliminate over time than having it end on a Saturday.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

SpinmasterK - early as possible is less important than late as possible...

I disagree...I am jonsing for skiing alot more in October than May

 

[RootDKJ]

And that right there is the problem. This is a company run by financial people, folks who generally run by the numbers not recognizing the customer side of the decision. Short term numbers are more important than long term impact.

My company makes this mistake all the time. Then three years down the road, somebody will eventually ask why we made the wrong decision and try to attribute blame on somebody else.

Now, what should Killington be? It should return to what it was before the financial disaster of the 10 years or so leading up to Powdr's acquisition. It has to return to being all about superlatives. It has to commit to blowing enough snow to remain open until the Memorial Day weekend by putting the Triathlon back on its schedule. It has to re-create the brand it owned for 40 years. It has to be about skiing first, and it has to be FOR the skier first and foremost. Without being about superlatives, it's just another New England ski area, albeit bigger, but it will be competing on everyone else's turf, and playing on someone else's field is never a great idea.

There's some merit to this. I was talking to my dad while on vacation, and our trips to Vermont when I was a child. Apparently, we went on trips to Stratton, Okemo and Killington, but I only ever remember going to Killington.

8 years ago, once I reached a point of financial stability in my life, and I started skiing again, my first instinct was to go to what I had the most vivid memories of....skiing at Killington. Over the past 8 seasons, I've made 4 to 12 day trips up there...more than once a season, and exclusively skiing Killington because I remember it to be "The Best" from when I was a kid.

Last season, I went somewhere else in Vermont for the "first time" (Stratton). I knew that the mid-mountain deck looked really familiar, but couldn't figure out why until last week when my dad showed me some old photos from the '80's. I realized, while there only for one day, that Killington is "just another New England ski area, albeit bigger".

This season, I don't really plan on going back to Killington. I'm going to see what the other VT areas have to offer me.

 

[RootDKJ]

I disagree...I am jonsing for skiing alot more in October than May

+1

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Dork, Joey, Mill and Moose, I hope things work out for you guys. You guys who own real estate there certainly have $$$ reason that can't just be walked away from so easily. That's why alot of people stay married when things go bad instead of getting a divorce.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

I disagree...I am jonsing for skiing alot more in October than May

-1 - I like to ski the WROD as much as anyone, but I'd still rather have as late a closing as possible. Alot more terrain is open and skiing in da sun in short sleeves is the bomb.

 

[icedtea]

When I was younger I use to love the place, it was hugh, great terrain, night life, lodging. With Hunter as my home base I was used to crowds so that didn't bother me at the time. As I ventured north of Rutland I realized there where better choices for me.

I'm not quite sure why people love to hate it. It seems as though people who are K loyalist like to put it down. For sure they love to talk about it. Even with there own Kzone to bitch and complain on they still feel the need to branch out to other ski forums to bitch and complain there.

Get a clue homey. The reason people voice opinions regarding Killington is because it does have a loyal following. Listen, like others before, Killington will be here when Powdr is gone, and so will a lot of those who "bitch".

Sorry if you do not have a mountain that you feel connected to, like a lot of us who have been at K for years.

Are you just trying to suck up for Brownie points because you saw Tom posted in this thread? Him being here for 5 years should allow him to understand where the frustration comes in.

How pathetic is that Sundown can now claim a better mogul party than K? Does Powdr like being the punching bag of the industry?

 

[JerseyJoey]

Dork, Joey, Mill and Moose, I hope things work out for you guys. You guys who own real estate there certainly have $$$ reason that can't just be walked away from so easily. That's why alot of people stay married when things go bad instead of getting a divorce.

You may be missing a piece of what we're saying here (or you may not be missing it, idk).

I don't want to make another mountain my home. Killington itself has everything I look for in a mountain ski wise, and then some. It has bumps, trees, steep steeps, long cruisers, pretty much some of everything I like. I want Killington to be my home mountain for the rest of my life, and hopefully my kids will as well. They love the place more than anything. They love the skiing, the diversity, the happy hour scene, the kids programs, and all the new friends they've made there, and they're only 6 and 5 years old. (Yes, I did say happy hour. They get to play air hockey and pool with Daddy and Mommy at Jax after a hard days skiing). They love Killington. They love the fact that they have a place to go to whenever they want to ski.

Nobody here is bad mouthing Killington. It's the owners that are getting the harsh treatment. They have f'ed the place up and killed the vibe. They have pissed off pretty much everybody. All they had to do was come in and put K bcak to the way she was. Trust me, nobody would be bitching.

 

[icedtea]

you may be missing a piece of what we're saying here (or you may not be missing it, idk).

I don't want to make another mountain my home. Killington itself has everything i look for in a mountain ski wise, and then some. It has bumps, trees, steep steeps, long cruisers, pretty much some of everything i like. I want killington to be my home mountain for the rest of my life, and hopefully my kids will as well. They love the place more than anything. They love the skiing, the diversity, the happy hour scene, the kids programs, and all the new friends they've made there, and they're only 6 and 5 years old. (yes, i did say happy hour. They get to play air hockey and pool with daddy and mommy at jax after a hard days skiing). They love killington. They love the fact that they have a place to go to whenever they want to ski.

Nobody here is bad mouthing killington. It's the owners that are getting the harsh treatment. They have f'ed the place up and killed the vibe. They have pissed off pretty much everybody. All they had to do was come in and put k bcak to the way she was. Trust me, nobody would be bitching.

+1918

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Get a clue homey. The reason people voice opinions regarding Killington is because it does have a loyal following. Listen, like others before, Killington will be here when Powdr is gone, and so will a lot of those who "bitch".

Sorry if you do not have a mountain that you feel connected to, like a lot of us who have been at K for years.

Are you just trying to suck up for Brownie points because you saw Tom posted in this thread? Him being here for 5 years should allow him to understand where the frustration comes in.

How pathetic is that Sundown can now claim a better mogul party than K? Does Powdr like being the punching bag of the industry?

I think you have mixed up with someone else.

I'm very connected to Whiteface and I don't know who Tom is. I have not had the pleasure of skiing with the mogul crew at Sundown, but I hope to make their bump contest in March.

I hope you have a great season at Killington.

 

[icedtea]

I think you have mixed up with someone else.

I'm very connected to Whiteface and I don't know who Tom is. I have not had the pleasure of skiing with the mogul crew at Sundown, but I hope to make their bump contest in March.

I hope you have a great season at Killington.

So, if new ownership at WF started seriously messing with what historically made that your choice in a mountain, you would not voice your displeasure? Just pick up and move?

Thanks I have a great season every year, same to you.

 

[deadheadskier]

What was it? Highly overrated

What is it under Pwdr? Highly overrated for fewer skiers willing to pay more money

What do I want it to be?

I'd like for it to do a million plus skier visits again to draw some of the traffic away from the many mountains in the Northeast that are far superior to it. :razz:

 

[2knees]

What was it? Highly overrated

What is it under Pwdr? Highly overrated for fewer skiers willing to pay more money

What do I want it to be?

I'd like for it to do a million plus skier visits again to draw some of the traffic away from the many mountains in the Northeast that are far superior to it. :razz:

watch out or iced teabag, the lilly white spoon fed gangsta from jersey might lay a verbal beatdown on you too. and you dont want that.