Hunter or Belleayre for Sat. 4/10

[dmc]

I just get sick of the belleayre bashing " as you do with the hunter bashing" and the uneducated reasons for it.They do alot for the little money budgeted the last 2 yrs and even if they dont run in the black they keep the economy going in the area.

I hear ya... I support them working in a budget.. Bell exists to serve the people... And the people seem happy..

Problem is - if they don't run in the black then there's no state $ to give them..

 

[catskillman]

You'd get a different opinion from the Hunter regulars...
The reason Hunter's closing is they don't have enough snow to move around. they didn't do any farming really.. We begged for snowmaking mid season.. They had to cut back to get that 6 pack.. It was touch and go with the banks until the end from whet I've heard...

The proof is... Bell is still open... Hunter's closed...

You are so right - if Hunter did not get that 7 foot snowstorm the mountain would have had to close weeks ago

 

[dmc]

You are so right - if Hunter did not get that 7 foot snowstorm the mountain would have had to close weeks ago

Seems to be the general consensus

 

[jtothewang]

I dont know what planet your from but the snow making capacity at Belleayre is not even close to hunter or windham.We dont have the capacity to blow tons of snow.Trail count is alway much lower for first 2 months of season.There is no way the snow makers work longer hours due to the budget cuts.It takes days to get decent coverage on each trail top to bottom"PS our trials are short"Versus Hunter and windham which takes a 2 week period to get most trails open.We dont blow snow just to blow snow but we do have a great team that makes it consistant and doesnt waste much time or money in doing it.So if ya wanna ski in New York ...quit your whiny ass bitching and come and ski at belleayre.

I never tried to make the argument Belleayre has more snow-making capacity than Hunter or Windham. That would be crazy. Hunter and Windham have a ton more capacity. The point I was making is there are more man-hours required for snow making at Belleayre (and a longer snow-making season), therefore I have heard of some guys heading to Belleayre in preference of increased hours (more $$$). Like I said, outside of spot snowmaking, Windham was done the Friday before Pres Week. The point is, when you have to worry about the bottom line profit of running a business, the decisions you make often times are different than a state owned ski area that likely has different criteria. My guess is opening in April is a money loser for the ski resorts. I would guess the same for Belleayre, but then again I'm no accountant.

 

[m32shakedown@aol.com]

More Skiing, less politics

I guess that I started this, it was not my intention, but in reading through all of the posts it seems that there is a raw nerve here.

I do not think that anyone here wants to see one less ski area in the catskills. I personally like the variety, all of the mountains mentioned here have different attributes and I believe that the survival of each depends on the susvival of the group.

It is a proven fact that individual sales for a gas station will increase at an intersection where there are Four stations compared to One.

The catskills in general has a great opportunity to grow with the new economy trend. People do not have the $$ or the time to travel to Vermont every weekend.

That said, The state of NY should do what many other states have done and lease out the area to a qualified private operator. This would be a win, win situation, the line item of the budget would be moved elsewhere, state jobs would not go away, they may just be somewhere else.

Belleayre, if operated by a private operator would still provide jobs to the local area (which does need the jobs)

Belleayre would not go away.

It would be great if the several Million dollars that the state puts into Belleayre went into a program to introduse new people to catskills skiing.

Put some bucks behind a high speed train from NYC, now your talking about real economic growth for this area. Thats Stimulous for the whole, not just the few that have year round state jobs with Belleayre.

 

[oakapple]

I skied exactly once apiece this season at Belleayre, Windham, and Hunter, and liked Belleayre the best. The other two have their merits, and I'm sure I'll visit them again, but if I had to choose a favorite, it's Belleayre.

It is a proven fact that individual sales for a gas station will increase at an intersection where there are Four stations compared to One.

I've never heard that anecdote before...but certainly, I didn't see any evidence that Belleayre was hurting Hunter.

That said, The state of NY should do what many other states have done and lease out the area to a qualified private operator. This would be a win, win situation, the line item of the budget would be moved elsewhere, state jobs would not go away, they may just be somewhere else.

I definitely see the argument that NY State should do the things that only government can do, and leave ski recreation to private operators who do that for a living.

Put some bucks behind a high speed train from NYC, now your talking about real economic growth for this area. Thats Stimulous for the whole, not just the few that have year round state jobs with Belleayre.

Much as I would like to see this, it's hard to imagine that high-speed rail to the Catskills would be a top priority anytime soon, given the state's budget situation.

 

[catskills]

I guess that I started this, it was not my intention, but in reading through all of the posts it seems that there is a raw nerve here.

I do not think that anyone here wants to see one less ski area in the catskills. I personally like the variety, all of the mountains mentioned here have different attributes and I believe that the survival of each depends on the susvival of the group.

It is a proven fact that individual sales for a gas station will increase at an intersection where there are Four stations compared to One.

The catskills in general has a great opportunity to grow with the new economy trend. People do not have the $$ or the time to travel to Vermont every weekend.

That said, The state of NY should do what many other states have done and lease out the area to a qualified private operator. This would be a win, win situation, the line item of the budget would be moved elsewhere, state jobs would not go away, they may just be somewhere else.

Belleayre, if operated by a private operator would still provide jobs to the local area (which does need the jobs)

Belleayre would not go away.

It would be great if the several Million dollars that the state puts into Belleayre went into a program to introduse new people to catskills skiing.

Put some bucks behind a high speed train from NYC, now your talking about real economic growth for this area. Thats Stimulous for the whole, not just the few that have year round state jobs with Belleayre.

Wow awesome post. For your second post here you have done a great job summarizing.

I had not heard the analogy with gas stations before either. I agree that the Catskill ski areas benefits from having a group of ski areas more than they lose in competition.

A high speed train (160 MPH) between NYC and Albany with maybe 3 - 5 minute stops in between would do wonders for entire NY State economy. A high speed train could reduce travel between NYC and Albany from 2 HRS 45 min down to 1 hour and 15 minutes. That is huge. The beauty of the mountains, streams, and lakes of Upstate NY has a lot to offer. With the right infrastructure hotel resorts in place, I could see a potential significant increase in tourism from Europe and other parts of US. History tells us NYC grew significantly after the Erie Canal made NYC a major shipping and transportation port. Without the Erie Canal the Boston Redsox would have been the baseball dynasty not the Yankees. ;-)

 

[faceplant]

privitizings just a cost shift shell game to line the pockets of pol's cronies ,imo
might look good on paper but 1 way or another there gonna getcha
could give some examples but dont want to get political......

 

[jtothewang]

privitizings just a cost shift shell game to line the pockets of pol's cronies ,imo
might look good on paper but 1 way or another there gonna getcha
could give some examples but dont want to get political......

I don't think you could be more wrong here. If it is done properly, privatization is a great way to go. I could give several examples and not sure why they'd be political. P-turnpike is a good one to start. A quick internet search will uncover many more. And it is often done in the form of a lease agreement, meaning the government does not lose ultimate control. Frankly, I think the government should lose ultimate control, but lease agreements are good middle ground and a much better spot than where we are now. I hear the state is closing some parks this year, why close them? why not lease them? sounds crazy in my opinion...

 

[dmc]

Put some bucks behind a high speed train from NYC, now your talking about real economic growth for this area. Thats Stimulous for the whole, not just the few that have year round state jobs with Belleayre.

It would be a full circle.. Trains are what helped make the Catskills a popular place.
there's a rich train history up here...

http://www.udrrhs.org/levelb.htm

 

[gmcunni]

Popped my Belleayre cherry today, NY State runs a fine resort. Will be going back next season for sure.

 

[oakapple]

Trains are what helped make the Catskills a popular place.
there's a rich train history up here...

http://www.udrrhs.org/levelb.htm

As I understand it, those train lines were rather slow. In the days before mass-market airline travel, and before most people had access to cars, they were the best escape route for people who wanted an out-of-town getaway. Autos and airplanes made the Catskills less attractive, in relation to other destinations that became equally or even more convenient.

As it now stands, the line would require significant investment to be brought back online, and to operate at speeds that would make them competitive. I'm not sure if the whole right-of-way is still available.