Rules/Opinions: 1st to open in East, Criteria

[Rambo]

Last year about this time, there seemed to be a controversy as to what is needed to get credit for being the 1st ski resort to open for the season with lift serviced skiing in the East.

Examples:
If Sunday River opens T2, does that count or does it have to be top to bottom?

Same with Killington: If they open some upper trails, does that count or does it have to be top to bottom?

What if Brenton Woods put down a deep base on an advanced beginer trail, would that count or does it have to be a major trail top to bottom

What if Mount Snow blasts the crap out on a terrain park, and opens a lift with skiing and boarding, would that count

 

[riverc0il]

Objectively, first to spin lifts that are open to the paying public is first to open by established definitions of words.

Subjectively, you can have whatever rules you prefer.

I would propose that any serious contender for the title should have at least one blue square rated or above trail (based on standards of pitch generally held across major resorts) open without walking required. Downloading is acceptable. That is what I would require to drive to and pay money for.

But objectively, those that "open" with a green circle pitched trail of 50 vertical feet can technically claim the distinction (or lack thereof).

 

[Newpylong]

Objectively, first to spin lifts that are open to the paying public is first to open by established definitions of words.

Subjectively, you can have whatever rules you prefer.

I would propose that any serious contender for the title should have at least one blue square rated or above trail (based on standards of pitch generally held across major resorts) open without walking required. Downloading is acceptable. That is what I would require to drive to and pay money for.

But objectively, those that "open" with a green circle pitched trail of 50 vertical feet can technically claim the distinction (or lack thereof).

Agreed. First to open has to be Blue Square to be anyhting but a novelty, no walking, downloading okay.

Bretton Woods' bunny hill, and Mount Snow's jib park do not count.
T2 and Glades area count in my book.

 

[jerryg]

Agreed. First to open has to be Blue Square to be anyhting but a novelty, no walking, downloading okay.

Bretton Woods' bunny hill, and Mount Snow's jib park do not count.
T2 and Glades area count in my book.

While I don't favor the bunny hill opening, a la Woodbury's rope tow, if BW opened one of the long trails off one of the HSQs, I'd be okay with that in the definition. They sort of lack the ability to do much more without opening multiple lifts.

That being said, spin a lift, charge money to use it, and it's all good in my book.

 

[mondeo]

Objectively, first to spin lifts that are open to the paying public is first to open by established definitions of words.

Subjectively, you can have whatever rules you prefer.

I would propose that any serious contender for the title should have at least one blue square rated or above trail (based on standards of pitch generally held across major resorts) open without walking required. Downloading is acceptable. That is what I would require to drive to and pay money for.

But objectively, those that "open" with a green circle pitched trail of 50 vertical feet can technically claim the distinction (or lack thereof).

Yep.

Basically, I'd put it at the first to open something significant enough for a typical skier to count as a regular run. Snow's jib park only really attracts park skiers. Killington's opening terrain has more vertical than some of the smaller ski areas around (not familiar with the T2 layout, but my understanding is that it has roughly similar characteristics.) Don't care what the actual lift layout is; with downloading for two chairs and skiing off a T-bar, no way I wouldn't count Whistler's summer offering as being open.

So, first to open a half-Sundown wins.

 

[AndyEich]

I measure North Ridge at 560' vertical, and T2 at 575'. In my book, both are plenty big to count.
________
Web Shows

 

[jerryg]

I measure North Ridge at 560' vertical, and T2 at 575'. In my book, both are plenty big to count.

Skiers and rider from places like Lost Valley are going to be saddened to realize that they have never had a season count! LOL! :wink:

PS: Andy, how are ya, buddy. Look forward to seeing you soon!

 

[Geoff]

I measure North Ridge at 560' vertical, and T2 at 575'. In my book, both are plenty big to count.

...until you spend the entire month of November where those are your only two options. That was last November. It's kind of killed off my enthusiasm this year. I had 2 Sunday River days and maybe 10-15 Killington days last year where that was it. It was like going to the gym.

 

[jimmywilson69]

Agreed. First to open has to be Blue Square to be anyhting but a novelty, no walking, downloading okay.

Bretton Woods' bunny hill, and Mount Snow's jib park do not count.
T2 and Glades area count in my book.

I agree, but what about the walk back to the K1 to download? does Kton still meet your criteria since there is walking inovlved?

(Not bashing, just extending the discussion)

I say yes, because North Ridge is about 2/3 the vertical of my home mountian in PA and it appears Kton will open with 4-5 trails once they do open, regardless of the walk.

 

[Vortex]

Agreed. First to open has to be Blue Square to be anyhting but a novelty, no walking, downloading okay.

Bretton Woods' bunny hill, and Mount Snow's jib park do not count.
T2 and Glades area count in my book.

I agree with this with Jerry's addition. A begiiner trial can be a full length trail. Bretton woods has opened the little beginner run and a rail that would not count in my book,
But the top lodge to the base trail can't remember the name, would count. That was my opening and closing day a few times.

 

[drjeff]

If you really have to ask "does this count as an official opening?" then more than likely it doesn't

 

[Mapnut]

What about opening with early snow and then closing when it melts? Certainly opening to stay open beats that. How about at least opening every weekend?

 

[Newpylong]

I agree, but what about the walk back to the K1 to download? does Kton still meet your criteria since there is walking inovlved?

(Not bashing, just extending the discussion)

I say yes, because North Ridge is about 2/3 the vertical of my home mountian in PA and it appears Kton will open with 4-5 trails once they do open, regardless of the walk.

I would definitely count the new Killington walkway as that is really their only option to get people back down whereas Sunday River has the Locke Triple right there.

Can't wait to see either one open.

 

[neil]

In my opinion whoever runs a lift and sells tickets is officially open.

 

[Method9455]

In my opinion whoever runs a lift and sells tickets is officially open.

Exactly.

A hike only park doesn't count.

A short little hill with the lift turning does count.

There are three counter arguments usually presented to saying Mt Snow made it first last year

1) The vert was too short

2) It was only park

3) It was super thin coverage

1 & 2 shouldn't matter. There are plenty of small mountains out there that by these standards are never "open". A park only mountain wouldn't attract some of you guys at all, it is still "open" for all of the people flocking to go and buy tickets for it. If a mountain opened with only mogul skiing for people in 80s ski suits, I wouldn't go but I would still consider it open for all of you buying tickets. And so what if the vert was small? It is still big enough to attract paying people.

3 might actually be a good reason to discount it. If you blow down 3" of snow, and it melts in 24 hours, does that really count as open? Any mountain could let just start spinning the lifts after a few hours of their first snowmaking session, but that doesn't really mean anything now does it? If Mt Snow made their park and then kept it going continuously while they rolled out other terrain it would be more convincing than if they just had it open for a day here and a day there.

 

[Method9455]

Yep.

Basically, I'd put it at the first to open something significant enough for a typical skier to count as a regular run. Snow's jib park only really attracts park skiers. Killington's opening terrain has more vertical than some of the smaller ski areas around (not familiar with the T2 layout, but my understanding is that it has roughly similar characteristics.) Don't care what the actual lift layout is; with downloading for two chairs and skiing off a T-bar, no way I wouldn't count Whistler's summer offering as being open.

So, first to open a half-Sundown wins.

And you define a "typical skier" as you.

Interestingly, these mountains remain profitable despite never being open by your definition.

www.bigboulderpark.com/
http://www.echomtnpark.com/
http://www.bearmountain.com/
http://rideboreal.com/winter

 

[Riverskier]

And you define a "typical skier" as you.

Interestingly, these mountains remain profitable despite never being open by your definition.

www.bigboulderpark.com/
http://www.echomtnpark.com/
http://www.bearmountain.com/
http://rideboreal.com/winter

What are you talking about? I have skied Bear Mountain and they have a 1665 vertical drop. I hit it on a powder day and it was a pretty cool place. Boreal has 500 vert and 380 acres. I don't think anyone is suggesting that these places are never open.

It is hard to define something that you can't quantify, such as determining what is considered open. Unless of course you want to be literal about it, in which case any patch of snow with lift access counts. I think the point of this discussion is to go beyond what the literal definition may be, and to discuss what people feel constitutes a real 1st to open designation. Personally I think Mondeo's definition is pretty much spot on. Regardless of virtually anyone's definition of a "typical skier", I think most anyone would agree that the "typical skier" would not consider a 50 vertical foot terrain park as a real run. If Mt Snow trucked in ice from an ice arena and ran that lift to a 10 foot patch with a rail on it, would you consider that open?

 

[Method9455]

Regardless of virtually anyone's definition of a "typical skier", I think most anyone would agree that the "typical skier" would not consider a 50 vertical foot terrain park as a real run. QUOTE]

Bullshit, that's what I don't agree with.

I'm not sure of the specifics of Mount Snow's bunny hill, but I know for a fact you can get throngs of people out for the bunny hill. The last few years the first mountain to "open" in PA was Big Boulder. They blew 6" of snow on the flattest freaking trail imaginable. It is the shortest lift at the smallest mountain in the state. On opening day the lift line was unimaginable. Hundreds of people showed up, and at some point people just started hiking. The trail was shoulder to shoulder with people (I'll pull up pictures if i have to) trying to hike about 5 or 6 rails.

The vast majority of those people never skied on that run again in a season. But it was the first time to get out on skis and people showed up.

 

[Riverskier]

Regardless of virtually anyone's definition of a "typical skier", I think most anyone would agree that the "typical skier" would not consider a 50 vertical foot terrain park as a real run. QUOTE]

Bullshit, that's what I don't agree with.

I'm not sure of the specifics of Mount Snow's bunny hill, but I know for a fact you can get throngs of people out for the bunny hill. The last few years the first mountain to "open" in PA was Big Boulder. They blew 6" of snow on the flattest freaking trail imaginable. It is the shortest lift at the smallest mountain in the state. On opening day the lift line was unimaginable. Hundreds of people showed up, and at some point people just started hiking. The trail was shoulder to shoulder with people (I'll pull up pictures if i have to) trying to hike about 5 or 6 rails.

The vast majority of those people never skied on that run again in a season. But it was the first time to get out on skis and people showed up.

That is great, seriously. And what Mt. Snow does is great too. And technically, first to spin a lift and offer skiing is the first to open. It is quite simple really and I don't think anyone can or will dispute that. I just think people here are putting the technical definition aside (you will win very time with that argument) and discussing something a bit more intangible. Everyone's definition will be different, but I think the general consensus is that the first to open, in this context, is not a jib park with 50 feet of vert.

 

[drjeff]

Regardless of virtually anyone's definition of a "typical skier", I think most anyone would agree that the "typical skier" would not consider a 50 vertical foot terrain park as a real run. QUOTE]

Bullshit, that's what I don't agree with.

I'm not sure of the specifics of Mount Snow's bunny hill, but I know for a fact you can get throngs of people out for the bunny hill. The last few years the first mountain to "open" in PA was Big Boulder. They blew 6" of snow on the flattest freaking trail imaginable. It is the shortest lift at the smallest mountain in the state. On opening day the lift line was unimaginable. Hundreds of people showed up, and at some point people just started hiking. The trail was shoulder to shoulder with people (I'll pull up pictures if i have to) trying to hike about 5 or 6 rails.

The vast majority of those people never skied on that run again in a season. But it was the first time to get out on skis and people showed up.

That is great, seriously. And what Mt. Snow does is great too. And technically, first to spin a lift and offer skiing is the first to open. It is quite simple really and I don't think anyone can or will dispute that. I just think people here are putting the technical definition aside (you will win very time with that argument) and discussing something a bit more intangible. Everyone's definition will be different, but I think the general consensus is that the first to open, in this context, is not a jib park with 50 feet of vert.

I think that the often overlooked "best" thing about how Mount Snow, and I do believe their sister resort, Big Boulder, handled the cost for the lift ticket for those opening day lift served jib sessions on the beginner hill, was that a lift tickets cost was something like 5 cans of food that was then donated to the local food bank. Good stuff in my book!