Cannon Lover's Thread

[thetrailboss]

I am also curious as to what specific issues the Tram has. FWIW Snowbird's Tram is now 54 years old and has had several key components replaced over the last few years to keep it going. New haul rope, new track ropes, new electronics, new cabins, and other upgrades. The towers and terminals are fine. Jay also did a significant upgrade to keep their Tram going. If you read the article closely, it sounds like the terminals and towers are fine but the other components need to be replaced. I would have hoped that they would have devised a better plan instead of just shutting it all down for an indefinite amount of time.

 

[snoseek]

The weekend crowd is gonna get a slice of what the midweek crowd has been eating for several years now. I wonder if this stacks lifts lines at zommer and profile a little deeper on a Saturday.

I usually consider cannon a good safe bet for weekend skiers to avoid total chaos but wonder if this changes that a bit

 

[Abubob]

Better hope all the other lifts don't break.

And they will. The Peabody was down for a while and the tram was the backup. Kinda makes me mad because they’ve know about this for a long long time and chose to do nothing except hem and haw.

 

[thebigo]

I reverse hiked the saddle on the Saturday Peabody was down, upper mountain was empty and excellent but obviously not viable long-term access to the best skiing on the mountain.

Having a few hours to digest the news, pass holders have every right to be bullshit. This is a planned operational decision intentionally withheld from the public until after pass prices went up. Cannon is lucky to have loyal pass holders, imagine if sunapee announced they were closing the summit quad pending some future ambiguous upgrade? Or Killington closing K1 or anywhere else for that matter.

They did not even have the professionalism to email pass holders?

The tram is a major revenue generator for the state park system. Feels more and more like Cannon is holding the system hostage.

 

[thetrailboss]

I reverse hiked the saddle on the Saturday Peabody was down, upper mountain was empty and excellent but obviously not viable long-term access to the best skiing on the mountain.

Having a few hours to digest the news, pass holders have every right to be bullshit. This is a planned operational decision intentionally withheld from the public until after pass prices went up. Cannon is lucky to have loyal pass holders, imagine if sunapee announced they were closing the summit quad pending some future ambiguous upgrade? Or Killington closing K1 or anywhere else for that matter.

They did not even have the professionalism to email pass holders?

The tram is a major revenue generator for the state park system. Feels more and more like Cannon is holding the system hostage.

I think it is a tactic to get funding from the State.

 

[Abubob]

I think it is a tactic to get funding from the State.

I’m all for tactics.

 

[thetrailboss]

I’m all for tactics.

Cannon is in a tough spot because they are a state entity so they are at the mercy of the Governor and Legislature. So getting people angry motivates the process….theoretically. If this is what is going on the biggest flaw I see is that if things are now at a breaking point then Cannon hasn’t exactly been transparent as to the situation. Again, things like this typically don’t just work fine one day and then break the next.

 

[bigbob]

Cannon is in a tough spot because they are a state entity so they are at the mercy of the Governor and Legislature. So getting people angry motivates the process….theoretically. If this is what is going on the biggest flaw I see is that if things are now at a breaking point then Cannon hasn’t exactly been transparent as to the situation. Again, things like this typically don’t just work fine one day and then break the next.

This could be the result of a recent inspection finding a flaw, but one would hope if that was the case it would be shut down right away.

 

[thebigo]

This could be the result of a recent inspection finding a flaw, but one would hope if that was the case it would be shut down right away.

Exactly, urgent safety or mechanical issues would result in immediate closure. Instead Cannon is continuing to run the tram through the remainder of the profitable season, then closing it for the unprofitable season.

I further suspect they are going to continue a couple runs a day to stock the summit building based on the 'conclusion of public operations' language.

Minimal impact on most but maybe a silver lining if we get snowmaking on Middle hard and more consistent operations of the t bar and double with the savings.

 

[Abubob]

maybe a silver lining if we get snowmaking on Middle hard and more consistent operations of the t bar and double with the savings.

I seriously doubt that. The tram only ran on weekends as it is. The “savings” I imagine it wouldn’t be enough to add snow making anywhere let alone added operations of two lifts. They should have been doing those things all along.

 

[AdironRider]

It is a little kept secret that the Tram was on its last legs and had age and wear and tear issues (hence its limited operating schedule and limited capacity). They basically got a stay of execution but after last winter's problems statewide with lifts they couldn't continue that ruse. The State has done fuckall to actually work towards a replacement, other than deliberately underfund a replacement (which was a feature not a bug). I do not envy Jace who was put into a position he could never win. FSC isn't paying for that like they do at Mitt either.

The truth of the matter is Cannon operates fine without the Tram, there is no difference in skiing, but it does change the vibe of the mountain and is major loss in terms of marketing / draw even if it is an inefficient means of uphill capacity. Nothing to differentiate themselves now and a really hard problem to overcome because on paper it looks terrible financially.

 

[Zand]

Maybe they could cut a narrow path for a Rope Tow from behind the ski museum over to the base of Zoomer? That slog is a lot after skiing Kinsman.

Yes I'm also fat and lazy

 

[deadheadskier]

I'm curious what the major maintenance issue is that has to have the lift shutdown after the fall.
Some greater transparency would be appreciated by all. Something like this:

Hi folks. The Tram is scheduled for X major annual service in October. Due to the age of the lift, the parts needed for this service have to be custom made at a very high cost. Just to complete this maintenance in order to pass safety testing for winter, we are looking at X dollars. As a matter of fiscally responsible policy, we are opting out of this expensive repair and allocating those funds towards the Tram replacement fund. Once the replacement is fully funded and an installation timeline established, we will update you further.

How hard is it to just be transparent with all of the facts? That's what pass holders and the NH taxpayers deserve.

 

[AdironRider]

I don't see the point or a lack of transparency. The maintenance is that it is at the end of its service life and there are a myriad of parts, including new tram cars, drives, buildings, significant tower and foundation work, etc. This isn't a surprise and has been hashed out already during the appropriations process, which was deliberately underfunded. Asking for itemization is just nitpicking when the reality is that report is "we need a new tram".

This is a good illustration of the no win situation Jace the new GM is in. Everyone has a opinion as a taxpayer, including what does or does not constitute valid major maintenance. Some would say you could just replace the floors in the tram cars. Some would say floors and doors, and so on down the line.

Sometimes its not that complicated. Its old, breaking down, and has liability issues by pushing it further pretty much everywhere. Sometimes things are just old and used up.

 

[BodeMiller1]

I am also curious as to what specific issues the Tram has. FWIW Snowbird's Tram is now 54 years old and has had several key components replaced over the last few years to keep it going. New haul rope, new track ropes, new electronics, new cabins, and other upgrades. The towers and terminals are fine. Jay also did a significant upgrade to keep their Tram going. If you read the article closely, it sounds like the terminals and towers are fine but the other components need to be replaced. I would have hoped that they would have devised a better plan instead of just shutting it all down for an indefinite amount of time.

Yes, why not rebuild it and have another ramp on the very top.
Cannon is a Cannon does.

 

[2Planker]

Cannon is in a tough spot because they are a state entity so they are at the mercy of the Governor and Legislature. So getting people angry motivates the process….theoretically. If this is what is going on the biggest flaw I see is that if things are now at a breaking point then Cannon hasn’t exactly been transparent as to the situation. Again, things like this typically don’t just work fine one day and then break the next.

JD said it 3-4 years ago that the Tram was gonna need a Rebuild and that the state was gonna be a no show....
Should have been done when Sununu was Gov. He was a lot more sympathetic to the ski industry....
I don't see Kelley Ayotte bailing out Cannon one bit.

 

[AdironRider]

Sununu was pretty against any sort of tram refurb, replacement or repair and advocated for a gondola pretty hard.

Kind of convenient they only appropriated an amount that roughly approximates what a gondola would cost........

 

[2Planker]

Sununu was pretty against any sort of tram refurb, replacement or repair and advocated for a gondola pretty hard.

Kind of convenient they only appropriated an amount that roughly approximates what a gondola would cost........

OK Fair enough. I meant that he was a Skier at heart and a lot friendlier to the ski industry than Kelly Ayotte

 

[jimk]

I don't see the point or a lack of transparency. The maintenance is that it is at the end of its service life and there are a myriad of parts, including new tram cars, drives, buildings, significant tower and foundation work, etc. This isn't a surprise and has been hashed out already during the appropriations process, which was deliberately underfunded. Asking for itemization is just nitpicking when the reality is that report is "we need a new tram".

This is a good illustration of the no win situation Jace the new GM is in. Everyone has a opinion as a taxpayer, including what does or does not constitute valid major maintenance. Some would say you could just replace the floors in the tram cars. Some would say floors and doors, and so on down the line.

Sometimes its not that complicated. Its old, breaking down, and has liability issues by pushing it further pretty much everywhere. Sometimes things are just old and used up.

New GM Jace Wirth is son of Andy Wirth. That family likes to live in interesting times

 

[2Planker]

New GM Jace Wirth is son of Andy Wirth. That family likes to live in interesting times

Andy is known for being more than a lil reckless....
Lost his right arm in an "operator error skydiving accident" 10+ years ago.