Skier speed trap hell - Page 18

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  1. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by deadheadskier View Post
    My point was Switzerland has a higher critical mass of residents and likely tourists too from all those ski resorts to make a rail system more viable financially. As is, I'd imagine the system in Switzerland is heavily subsidized

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    Not to mention a whole lot more money than Vermont.

  2. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by VTKilarney View Post
    Not to mention a whole lot more money than Vermont.
    Sounds like more fake school zones are needed.
    President - Bicknell's Thrush Extermination Solutions (BTES), LLC



  3. #173
    Just went to Laax by way of train and bus from Zurich in the middle of a couple week trip around the EU. While yes, their trains are impossibly better than our PATHETIC railroads(might be more passionate about trains than skiing) in this country, they do pay for it. Taxes are pretty high and an ice coffee will run ya $8, Switzerland may be the most beautiful place on the planet, but damn do they make ya pay! EXCEPT ON LIFT TICKETS!!!! I PAID $80 FOR A FULL DAY. Ugh I'm getting going, the saddle leather interior of the gondola, the Porsche designed bubble 6 that angles itself so you can see more scenery not the back of the chair in front of you, the place was heaven.

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  4. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by deadheadskier View Post
    What's a typical ticket cost?

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    Zermatt is in the 70's and I think Andermatt was in the 60's.

  5. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jully View Post
    Still subsidized, I almost guarantee it. There's no way Switzerland gets enough traffic to pay for trains through that terrain. Covering operating costs, maybe, but pay down debt or make capital purchases, no way.
    The train system are subsidized, I'm told. How much of that goes to the mountain region vs how much goes to inter-city trains I know not.

    The train were not just for skiers alone. People who live in those villages use the train to go into the city too.

    But that's the point. For people who said trains impractical because it can't replace cars, you're all WRONG! But you are all RIGHT at the same time. Trains are not to REPLACE cars, it's to SUPPLEMENT car journeys. It CAN BE very practical without replacing cars. Provided it's well developed to serve the population movement pattern.

    It's already happening in the US if you care to look. Just about all major metropolitan areas in the northeast have well developed train systems. New York City, Washington DC, Boston, even San Francisco has commuter trains. The trains are heavily used. The demands are clearly there, for those who are not too blind about its practicality.
    Last edited by abc; Apr 28, 2018 at 10:29 PM.

  6. #176
    A. Speed traps that are more for revenue than for safety are a bad thing. That said, the risk of pedestrian death in an auto vs ped crash increases very rapidly with the speed of the car, so slow down.

    B. There are heaps of ways to go skiing without a car. I haven't owned one in 20 years, though I did rent one for a 3 day Stratton/ Okemo trip this year and did a Zipcar carpool to Windham in late March. Windham, Hunter, Mt. Peter, Belleayre all have bus service daily from Manhattan. The resorts further north have what are essentially redeye buses leaving from NY/NJ/LI in the wee hours. Most folks sleep the first few hours, then there's a coffee stop near Albany. The aforementioned Thunder Ridge and Wachusett ski trains are an easy and cheap day trip option. Gore had a ski train, but I'm not sure it ran this season. Tremblant is super easy to get to from Montreal by bus. Out west, SLC is the obvious winner for car free access, but pretty much every major western city has reasonable day trip ski buses. Even Phoenix.

    C. While there will always be a significant number of Americans who need a car, that number will likely shrink with improved urban planning, telecommuting, rideshare services, etc. In 1983, 87% of American 19 year olds had Drivers Licenses. By 2015, that was down to 70%.

    D. Of course trains in Switzerland are subsidized. All transport is, including highways, airports, etc, etc. It's all about priorities. The Swiss spend about 13% of their annual budget on transport. The US spends about 2% of the Federal Budget on transport. The states kick in a percentage as well, but total per capita spending is not even close to comparable.



    Enjoy the freedom of your car, I'll have that second beer at apres without fear of a DUI, maybe even have one on the bus as we roll down the thruway.

  7. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by 2planks2coasts View Post
    A. Speed traps that are more for revenue than for safety are a bad thing. That said, the risk of pedestrian death in an auto vs ped crash increases very rapidly with the speed of the car, so slow down.

    B. There are heaps of ways to go skiing without a car. I haven't owned one in 20 years, though I did rent one for a 3 day Stratton/ Okemo trip this year and did a Zipcar carpool to Windham in late March. Windham, Hunter, Mt. Peter, Belleayre all have bus service daily from Manhattan. The resorts further north have what are essentially redeye buses leaving from NY/NJ/LI in the wee hours. Most folks sleep the first few hours, then there's a coffee stop near Albany. The aforementioned Thunder Ridge and Wachusett ski trains are an easy and cheap day trip option. Gore had a ski train, but I'm not sure it ran this season. Tremblant is super easy to get to from Montreal by bus. Out west, SLC is the obvious winner for car free access, but pretty much every major western city has reasonable day trip ski buses. Even Phoenix.

    C. While there will always be a significant number of Americans who need a car, that number will likely shrink with improved urban planning, telecommuting, rideshare services, etc. In 1983, 87% of American 19 year olds had Drivers Licenses. By 2015, that was down to 70%.

    D. Of course trains in Switzerland are subsidized. All transport is, including highways, airports, etc, etc. It's all about priorities. The Swiss spend about 13% of their annual budget on transport. The US spends about 2% of the Federal Budget on transport. The states kick in a percentage as well, but total per capita spending is not even close to comparable.

    Enjoy the freedom of your car, I'll have that second beer at apres without fear of a DUI, maybe even have one on the bus as we roll down the thruway.
    Having moved to Vermont from Boston in the last couple years this comes off as a city guy taking. Up here cars are going nowhere, they are the ONLY form of transportation for most people around me. You will never see infrastructure in rural areas like you see overseas where every village gets quality service.

    For those who may not know, Trump's guy running Amtrak has actually been cutting things left and right and is now proposing cutting all long distance trains so we're heading in the other direction. Americans aren't used to the train and have an overall not great perception of it and then Amtrak is just barely better than a Greyhound. It's not like Europe where seemingly every train station is a gorgeous cathedral and the trains are modern, clean, fast, and very good looking both in and out.

    Sent from my LG-H820 using AlpineZone mobile app
    2014-2015
    11/3- Sunday River
    11/9- Bretton Woods
    12/13- Bretton Woods
    1/18- Wachusett
    1/25- Watatic
    1/29- Wachusett

    www.skibigsquaw.com

  8. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by sull1102 View Post
    Having moved to Vermont from Boston in the last couple years this comes off as a city guy taking. Up here cars are going nowhere, they are the ONLY form of transportation for most people around me. You will never see infrastructure in rural areas like you see overseas where every village gets quality service.

    For those who may not know, Trump's guy running Amtrak has actually been cutting things left and right and is now proposing cutting all long distance trains so we're heading in the other direction. Americans aren't used to the train and have an overall not great perception of it and then Amtrak is just barely better than a Greyhound. It's not like Europe where seemingly every train station is a gorgeous cathedral and the trains are modern, clean, fast, and very good looking both in and out.

    Sent from my LG-H820 using AlpineZone mobile app
    Of course it sounds like a city guy talking. Though I have lived car free in rural Maine and New Mexico as well. the 20% of Americans who live in rural areas is the significant portion I was referring to that will always need a car, and they should have well maintained roads to drive them on. An ever increasing number live in suburban or urban areas though, and their need for a vehicle of their own is likely to decrease even further. The point is they can still ski or ride without owning a car.

    While this is a ski / snowboard forum, Infrastructure requires spending and thus any discussion of it is inherently political. We as a country would rather spend our billions on things other than infrastructure.

  9. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by abc View Post
    It's already happening in the US if you care to look. Just about all major metropolitan areas in the northeast have well developed train systems. New York City, Washington DC, Boston, even San Francisco has commuter trains. The trains are heavily used. The demands are clearly there, for those who are not too blind about its practicality.
    It's not practical at all when it's a massive cost center. In all of America, there is only one Amtrak train route that is profitable, and that is Boston to DC (via NYC & Philly). Other than that relatively short route, Amtrak is a major taxpayer-sucking failure. Keep the Boston to DC route, and let the rest of it die would be my recommendation.
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  10. #180

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    Quote Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
    It's not practical at all when it's a massive cost center. In all of America, there is only one Amtrak train route that is profitable, and that is Boston to DC (via NYC & Philly). Other than that relatively short route, Amtrak is a major taxpayer-sucking failure. Keep the Boston to DC route, and let the rest of it die would be my recommendation.
    For a guy living in northern Jersey to advocate eliminating trains, all those 10+ lines of Jersey Transit trains needs to go! I'm sure the roads of northern Jersey will have no trouble absorbing all those train riders getting into their personal cars!

    BTW, the roads are also a "cost center". Better remove them except the ones that survive on tolls.

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