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Ski Thefts at Gunstock
- Thread starter billski
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speden
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It looks like this is an old thread, but I think the best way to reduce these types of thefts is good camera surveillance.
If the resort puts up high def cameras on the ski racks, parking lot and exit road, it's a simple matter to track down the thieves and get them arrested. Once word gets out the place is secure, the thieves move elsewhere. Most resorts don't bother because they think the camera equipment is too expensive, but prices have come down and capabilities have improved. Cameras are all digital now and store their images on hard drive servers for easy searching after a theft, or watching suspicious people in real time.
If the resort puts up high def cameras on the ski racks, parking lot and exit road, it's a simple matter to track down the thieves and get them arrested. Once word gets out the place is secure, the thieves move elsewhere. Most resorts don't bother because they think the camera equipment is too expensive, but prices have come down and capabilities have improved. Cameras are all digital now and store their images on hard drive servers for easy searching after a theft, or watching suspicious people in real time.
I disagree with the camera suggestion. The skier/riders should bare 100% of the responsibility. Don't lock your stuff? You ask for it if it gets stolen.
The cost of the cameras and (what is probably even more expensive) the cost of the now consumer expected investigation will get passed on to guests, whether it be in lift ticket costs, F&B etc.
People don't leave their bikes unlocked in cities, why should anyone leave hundreds of dollars worth of equipment unlocked at a ski mountain? I have in the past, but then again, I've always had equipment that has been several years old and of little value. I bought a lock this year when I got new equipment that would be much more a target to some thieves.
I think offering a 'free' ski check is plenty enough as is.
The cost of the cameras and (what is probably even more expensive) the cost of the now consumer expected investigation will get passed on to guests, whether it be in lift ticket costs, F&B etc.
People don't leave their bikes unlocked in cities, why should anyone leave hundreds of dollars worth of equipment unlocked at a ski mountain? I have in the past, but then again, I've always had equipment that has been several years old and of little value. I bought a lock this year when I got new equipment that would be much more a target to some thieves.
I think offering a 'free' ski check is plenty enough as is.
speden
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Well bikes in a city isn't that close of an analogy, since a city isn't isolated like most resorts are. In a resort setting you can pretty easily monitor all the entrances and exits, and the thieves have to use a car with license plate numbers to commit their crime. So resorts have a good physical advantage over the thieves. For a small investment in some cameras and software, they can nail those bastards.
I sometimes use a ski lock, but I find it to be a hassle. Plus if I lock up my skis, the thief is just going to steal someone else's stuff, and I get mad when I hear anyone gets ripped off. For what people pay for lift tickets, getting some low cost security from the resort in the form of a few surveillance cameras is not a lot to ask.
The security software is pretty sophisticated now too. The video is time indexed and you can view it at high speed, so tracking down a thief is probably just a couple hours of effort. Thefts are not that frequent that employees would be spending a lot of time on it, but when there is a theft, most people would enjoy catching the crooks.
It's in the best interest of the resort to stop thefts since it's bad publicity for them when people lose their gear there. Cameras can even be set up to be motion sensitive, so you only record stuff when something is actually happening. I think technology like this can put most of these ski and board thieves out of business.
I sometimes use a ski lock, but I find it to be a hassle. Plus if I lock up my skis, the thief is just going to steal someone else's stuff, and I get mad when I hear anyone gets ripped off. For what people pay for lift tickets, getting some low cost security from the resort in the form of a few surveillance cameras is not a lot to ask.
The security software is pretty sophisticated now too. The video is time indexed and you can view it at high speed, so tracking down a thief is probably just a couple hours of effort. Thefts are not that frequent that employees would be spending a lot of time on it, but when there is a theft, most people would enjoy catching the crooks.
It's in the best interest of the resort to stop thefts since it's bad publicity for them when people lose their gear there. Cameras can even be set up to be motion sensitive, so you only record stuff when something is actually happening. I think technology like this can put most of these ski and board thieves out of business.
vonski
New member
Get a lock, don't put the blame back on the mountain and need for high tech cameras to watch. what a waste of money for the mountain. I have a lock that does not even stay locked if u pull it. but I still use it cause no thief is going to bother when they see the lock! either the little retractables that fit in ur pocket or a bike lock that can be slung over the shoulder. Actually I have both the pocket one for when just running into the lodge and the heavier one when I lock up a pair at the base as I am out on other skis at the time and want the other pair for later in the day! I put the lock on the rack on the morning and leave it. It is there for my use so I don't have to have it over my shoulder.
The other solution is to take your friends ski and put it with one of your own and place them apart in different racks. Again a thief is not going to waste time looking for the match! HOPEFULLY!
As to the gas pumps. I use my fop on my key chain fits perfect. Had them shut me off one time in Mass. I said ok I got enough gas at this point anyways before they shut it off. The clerk looked kinda surprised! Just doing his job, but did not need to fill up and have to do two transactions.
The other solution is to take your friends ski and put it with one of your own and place them apart in different racks. Again a thief is not going to waste time looking for the match! HOPEFULLY!
As to the gas pumps. I use my fop on my key chain fits perfect. Had them shut me off one time in Mass. I said ok I got enough gas at this point anyways before they shut it off. The clerk looked kinda surprised! Just doing his job, but did not need to fill up and have to do two transactions.
A bonus to being a bump skier is nobody wants to steal a pair of skis that are less than 100 at the tip and the tips are all banged up from the keeping your skis pinned together. You may pay $300- 900 but no one will steal them. 
Stay in the Bumps
jsul
Stay in the Bumps
jsul
skibumm100
New member
theft
When I skied in the midwest someone backed up a pick-up truck to the rack near the parking lot, jumped out and picked up the whole rack and all the skis and threw it in the back of the truck and took off. Now that takes cajones.
I still use my Collins I-dent-i-ski lock that I got in 1972. Still works fine and the cable is so beefy, you can't cut it with simple wire cutters. Fits in my pocket fine. The only problem is that I'm getting older and I can't read the digits on the lock without my reading glasses when it starts getting dark so I have to get my kids to unlock it for me at the end of the day. It's tough getting older.:roll:
We taught our kids to lock their stuff up and both do it without fail.
I would also say you don't need cameras, just signs that say the area is under video surveilance.
When I skied in the midwest someone backed up a pick-up truck to the rack near the parking lot, jumped out and picked up the whole rack and all the skis and threw it in the back of the truck and took off. Now that takes cajones.
I still use my Collins I-dent-i-ski lock that I got in 1972. Still works fine and the cable is so beefy, you can't cut it with simple wire cutters. Fits in my pocket fine. The only problem is that I'm getting older and I can't read the digits on the lock without my reading glasses when it starts getting dark so I have to get my kids to unlock it for me at the end of the day. It's tough getting older.:roll:
We taught our kids to lock their stuff up and both do it without fail.
I would also say you don't need cameras, just signs that say the area is under video surveilance.
This I don't understand. My ski lock is smaller than my Blackberry. Fits unnoticeably in my jacket pocket and literally takes about as much time to use as putting on my gloves.
not if they lock up their stuff too. I'm sure locked stuff gets ripped, but I bet it represents less than 1% thefts.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I feel mountains have zero responsibility towards preventing theft of individuals personal property. Free Ski checks are above and beyond and an excellent courtesy.
Ultimately though, 100% of the responsibility should fall on the individual.
madriverjack
Member
I had a pair of Rossi 4m's stolen and I split them up. Now I sit where I can see them and if someone tries to take them they will pay with a beating. That is after a quick question to make sure they didn't have the same skis (show me them) and grab mine by mistake.
oh man
(((((4Ms))))))
my first ever bump ski how I loved thee. I'd love if Rossi went retro like Dynastar and K2 and produced a 4M. I'd buy em even if they sucked :lol:
speden
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I'm not really disagreeing with you DHS, I'm just pointing out that the resort is in a good position to eliminate the vast majority of ski thefts, and for minimal cost and effort.
Locks are a great deterrent for the individual, but in terms of the community, they do little to stop the problem. Using a lock doesn't put any criminals in jail, but cameras do. It's just not realistic to expect everyone to use a lock. People are always going to take their chances for various reasons, and if the resort has no security, then the thieves are allowed to flourish. I'd like to see the thieves arrested, and when you can catch them and show the video to the judge, then they will get what they deserve.
Resorts are not responsible for thefts, but it is good business for them to prevent them.
gotcha
having worked at ski areas and gone over P&Ls for them; guess I just know that cost, even if nominal, always gets passed on to the guest. I don't feel that the responsible 'lockers' should be punished with higher fees to protect the irresponsible.
I do hear you on the 'good business' side of things and bad PR that thefts can create, but I grew up skiing Okemo who has a notorious reputation of being a mountain where a lot of skis gets ripped. The people still go there in droves.
all good discussion though :beer:
having worked at ski areas and gone over P&Ls for them; guess I just know that cost, even if nominal, always gets passed on to the guest. I don't feel that the responsible 'lockers' should be punished with higher fees to protect the irresponsible.
I do hear you on the 'good business' side of things and bad PR that thefts can create, but I grew up skiing Okemo who has a notorious reputation of being a mountain where a lot of skis gets ripped. The people still go there in droves.
all good discussion though :beer:
Skier75
New member
I agree...anything that I buy of importance to me, I'm buying a lock. Guess that also goes with growing in in a city, well if you want to call South Portland/Portland a city.....anyways I've always bought locks for my bikes, recently my skis, since they do cost a lot of money. I'd be pretty pissed at myself for not locking them, even for a second, that's all it would take, if they got stolen.
Living in South Portland years ago my sister had a really nice Fugi 10 speed, she went into a local store for "just a minute", didn't lock her bike, GONE! when she got back, man was she bummed. She got real lucky though, almost a year later the police called her to come check out this bike they got, she got it back in the same condition she left it at! Man she was really lucky, sucked she had to wait a year to get it back, but lesson learned, LOCK everything, even for a second. When we go skiing and have to take a pit stop, we still take the time to LOCK it up....I would be really bummed to get our expensive equipment stolen through no fault but my own......just my 2 cents.....
dmc
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It has to do with taxes not the location of the refineries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Gasoline_Taxes_April_2009.svg
speden
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If anyone's interested, one new type of security video software can condense a whole days worth of camera footage into a short video clip of all the days events superimposed on each other.
So for example if you had a camera aimed at the ski rack, you could just watch the spot where the stolen board was, and quickly see the owner place it on the rack, and then the person who stole it. By clicking on the thief, it would then bring up the original footage of the theft. If the footage is high def, you could then zoom in to see the crook's face, license plate number, etc. With advancements like these, the odds start to favor the good guys over the crooks.
There's a good demo of this type of feature here:
http://www.briefcam.com/demo.html
So for example if you had a camera aimed at the ski rack, you could just watch the spot where the stolen board was, and quickly see the owner place it on the rack, and then the person who stole it. By clicking on the thief, it would then bring up the original footage of the theft. If the footage is high def, you could then zoom in to see the crook's face, license plate number, etc. With advancements like these, the odds start to favor the good guys over the crooks.
There's a good demo of this type of feature here:
http://www.briefcam.com/demo.html
riverc0il
New member
Resorts can't do much to prevent thefts. You contradict yourself by stating in your first paragraph that resorts can do so for minimal cost and effort but then suggest that resorts install video cameras everywhere there are ski corals. That is going to be VERY expensive and at ZERO benefit. Cameras don't prevent thefts. Ask any manager at any retail store that has CCTV how much it stops theft. Cameras are there to prosecute those that get caught. There is a minor detrimental effect when people see cameras but NOT MUCH. Especially at a ski area. And while cameras help with prosecution, most people never get caught.
Ski areas should not be responsible for prevention of theft when they already DO offer ways to prevent theft such as bag checks, ski checks, and locks at their retail shop. That is like saying that a gas station is responsible for a bike theft if a cyclist stops to grab a bottle of water and leaves their bike unattended. Or if someone leaves their keys in their car and the door unlocked when they run into a store to buy something and their car gets stolen.
These are crimes of opportunity and can not be stopped with cameras. Not without someone monitoring every camera for every second but then how is that person (that costs money to employ) going to know who is the owner and who is the thief? They can not possibly know unless they focus on only a single rack and are good at memorizing faces and linking them to an item which may be hard to distinguish in black and white.
I don't buy it. Personal responsibility for all. Don't spend hundreds of dollars on skis but skimp on a $10 lock that will last forever. Let's not suggest ski areas spend thousands of dollars every year (which get passed on to consumers as higher prices) on preventing crime that can not be prevented when we as individuals can take responsibility for our own property.
speden
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You're probably thinking of the older generation of surveillance equipment, that makes grainy black and white movies, must be controlled manually, and records to VHS tapes. Yes, those were expensive and pretty worthless.
The new systems are not that expensive. They can be wireless, so you just need to connect power to them. As far as I remember, Gunstock for example only has two main ski rack areas, two parking lots, and one access road. That would be about five cameras plus a DVR, which is basically just a high end PC. And the systems are automated, so you don't need someone to sit there watching them. Everything is recorded and condensed digitally, so when a guy comes in and says my skis got stolen sometime between 2 and 4 pm, you can watch just that time period showing all the activity overlaid and condensed to sixty seconds, and the owner can point out the thief to you. Did you see the link I posted just before your post? It's pretty amazing technology.
No one is saying ski areas are responsible for thefts. But I think as the camera technology continues to improve and come down further in price, the current mindset of "blame the victim" will slowly be replaced by trying to catch the thief.
The current approach is basically this: Guy comes to the office saying his skis were stolen. Manager politely tells him it's his fault for not locking up his skis and using the free ski check. Asks him to fill out a form for the police report. Guy goes home and complains on some forum that his skis were stolen at resort X. He's mad, and will never see his skis again.
Camera approach: "Hey Joe, punch up camera 3 between 2 and 4 pm. Oh, there's the guy, with the brown jacket. Let's see camera 4. Yeah there he goes; he put the skis in that blue Chevy. Punch up the live shot. Hey, the car's still here, get the cops out here before he takes off, and check the other racks to see if the guys boosting some more skis." The victim then goes home and raves about how great the security is at resort X, and the thieves figure out resort X is a bad place to boost skis. The theft rate there plummets. This is not science fiction, it's available now.
riverc0il
New member
I don't think any one is blaming the victim (though victimology would certainly suggest someone not purchasing a $10 insurance policy on a $700 pair of skis is setting themselves up for a potential crime of opportunity--that is not blaming the victim, that is just the facts). Nor should we blame ski areas for not investing in an expensive system. A decent low quality consumer video camcorder starts at $200. Add in high quality mega zoom with a wide field of vision, wireless, weather proof, a system, several cameras and an installation and I would suspect the price tag would be in excess of $20,000. I don't feel that type of financial burden is the ski area's to assume because there are a few A holes out there stealing stuff. Should every business install these cameras? What makes ski areas so special? Why don't we just get the government to install cameras on every street corner to prevent crime? Etc. Slippery slope and too much cost. Especially, when in the case of skis, there are already proven steps individuals can take. I think this is an individual's responsibility and the ski area need not shoulder an unreasonable financial burden.
We may just have to agree to disagree on that core aspect of the issue.
We may just have to agree to disagree on that core aspect of the issue.
I always split my skis up. leave one on the snow and one on a distant rack. I know it happens but I doubt too many thieves would take the time to seek out the other ski. I am not violent by nature but would beat the living fuck out of anyone trying to take my stuff. I think I would beat them with the very skis they were trying to steal!
I still feel bad for anyone who has there stuff taken, lock or no lock.
I still feel bad for anyone who has there stuff taken, lock or no lock.
