2011 VW Jetta sucks.

[bvibert]

Didn't they bring the Rabbit back last year or the year before?

They brought back the Rabbit name for the 5th generation of the Golf, but they seemed to have dropped that again. The original Rabbit was just what they called the Golf here in the states for it's first generation. Everywhere else in the world it's always been the Golf.

 

[Geoff]

I know with the Golf TDI it has the same suspension and everything as the Golf GTI, just a diesel motor. Not sure if that applies to the Jetta line as well. But the diesel golf I know for sure is pretty sporty.

The Golf TDI doesn't have the archaic torsion bar rear suspension of the cheapened Jetta but it also doesn't have the stiffer "sport-tuned" suspension of the MK VI GTI. Same independent rear suspension technology but a little bit softer. For a FWD econobox, the MK VI Golf (and 2012 Jetta GLI) has a pretty nice suspension.

 

[bvibert]

Didn't base Golfs used to be cheaper than a base Jetta?

Anyone driven the base Golf? It's also pretty inexpensive at 18K for the base 2 door. Wonder if it too suffers similar short comings as some folks are lamenting about the base Jetta. Sucks you can't get a MT in the 4 door unless you go the TDI route.

The base Golf is more comparable to the SEL version of the Jetta, which is the top gas powered version. The Golf just doesn't have as many levels, you can get gas or diesel in 2 or 4 doors.

The gas Golf comes with the 2.5L 5 cylinder and F/R disc brakes, not the 2.0L 4 cylinder that the base Jetta S comes with, or the front disc, rear drum brakes that the S and SE come with.

Those are two of the biggest gripes that I'm aware of.

You can't get the sport suspension with the gas Golf like you can with the Jetta SEL, however the Golf has multilink rear suspension while the Jetta has the old school "twist beam" rear suspension in all trim levels. The twist beam is pretty much the same rear suspension that they've been using since the original rabbit. I wouldn't say it's bad, but there's certainly nothing fancy or new about it and I bet the multilink is better.

There's probably other differences in options that you can get (it looks like you can't get a navigation unit in the gas golfs, but you can in the Jetta SEL, for instance), but I'm not really sure.

None of the above applies to the Sportwagen, which is a different animal from the Jetta sedan.

 

[Glenn]

Yeah, bringing back the torsion beam was an odd move. And the 2.0. But as mentioned, it is selling rather well. I guess the masses just don't care.

VW is trying to surpass Toyota's size. Actually, it's now GM since Toyota dropped to #3, with GM being #1 and VW being #2.

 

[AdironRider]

According to this thread ->http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4714365

The difference is that the front sway bar on the GTI is 23mm, and the TDI has a 21mm. Relatively negligble, but I will conceed they are different. I was referencing the C&D article mentioned in the thread.

And torsion bars arent that bad. Look at the Mustangs with the track pack. Ive driven the V6 model and couldnt beleive how far they have made a rear torsion bar suspension come along. Not saying they are better, but its not going to ruin your whole driving experience. Most wont even know its back there.

 

[bvibert]

And torsion bars arent that bad. Look at the Mustangs with the track pack. Ive driven the V6 model and couldnt beleive how far they have made a rear torsion bar suspension come along. Not saying they are better, but its not going to ruin your whole driving experience. Most wont even know its back there.

Having not driven one of the multilink VW's, but having plenty of seat time in torsion bar VWs I tend to agree.

How else are you going to get the rear wheel lift in hard corners that VW is know for? :lol:

 

[deadheadskier]

man

the geek meter in this thread is pegged :lol:

 

[AdironRider]

I can geek out on car stuff all day.

A major downside to living in Wyoming is noone gives a shit about vehicles unless its a 1 ton dually diesel. Im stuck on internet forums to get my fix.

Eyeing a nice project 88 325is though. That should help.

 

[bvibert]

According to this thread ->http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4714365

The difference is that the front sway bar on the GTI is 23mm, and the TDI has a 21mm. Relatively negligble, but I will conceed they are different. I was referencing the C&D article mentioned in the thread.

Skimming through the thread it would seem that several people who had driven both the TDI and GTI say that the GTI has a firmer suspension. The same quote that you got the above sway bar diameter info from also say that the front spring rates are pretty different 33 N/mm for the GTI and 25 N/mm for the TDI. I'd expect the gas engine in the GTI to be a bit lighter than the TDI, although the overall weight of the GTI is 40 pounds higher, so that might not be the case.

 

[bvibert]

man

the geek meter in this thread is pegged :lol:

I used to spend a LOT of time on VWVortex and other automotive forums... before I got back into skiing.

 

[Glenn]

I used to spend a LOT of time on VWVortex and other automotive forums... before I got back into skiing.

x2.

I'm still a car nerd.

 

[Geoff]

Skimming through the thread it would seem that several people who had driven both the TDI and GTI say that the GTI has a firmer suspension. The same quote that you got the above sway bar diameter info from also say that the front spring rates are pretty different 33 N/mm for the GTI and 25 N/mm for the TDI. I'd expect the gas engine in the GTI to be a bit lighter than the TDI, although the overall weight of the GTI is 40 pounds higher, so that might not be the case.

Yep. That's the difference between the "stock" suspension on a MK VI Volkswagen and the "sport tuned" version. You have to totally ignore the Mexican Jetta sold in the US market since that's now an entirely different car from what is sold in the rest of the world.

There are a lot of days I'd rather have "stock" than my GTI's "sport tuned". If I'm on a road with expansion joints or truck-worn ruts, it's tough to make a conference call on my Blackberry from all the transmitted road noise. I had so many Vermont points on my license that I now drive like grandma on all those fun Vermont back roads. I don't use the last 50 hp the spooled up turbo delivers or the stiffer suspension very often.

 

[deadheadskier]

what color is your GTI Geoff?

 

[Geoff]

The base Golf is more comparable to the SEL version of the Jetta, which is the top gas powered version. The Golf just doesn't have as many levels, you can get gas or diesel in 2 or 4 doors.

I don't pay much attention to Jettas since I am a hatchback person but I thought the Mexican Jetta was now a totally different car from a MK VI Golf? Different (longer) wheelbase and different rear suspension. Different (lower grade) interior.

I believe the 2012 Jetta GLI is made in Europe and is a "real" MK VI Volkswagen. The others sold in the US are all the Mexican platform with the different interior and old school VW rear suspension. They upgrade the 2.slow engine to the I5 and ditch the rear drum brakes but it's still not the same mechanicals or interior as any Golf. The Jetta Sportwagen is also the "real" MK VI Volkswagen with the good interior and independent rear suspension.

 

[Geoff]

what color is your GTI Geoff?

 

[deadheadskier]

I thought it was Orange. I think the color might be equally at fault as your lead foot in getting speeding tickets.

When I see an Orange GTI, my mind automatically profiles the driver as a young male with a speedracer mentality.

 

[Geoff]

I thought it was Orange. I think the color might be equally at fault as your lead foot in getting speeding tickets.

When I see an Orange GTI, my mind automatically profiles the driver as a young male with a speedracer mentality.

You wouldn't believe how many times I've been pulled over for "driving while orange".

Story:
About 4 weeks ago, I was driving up I-95 to Portsmouth, NH. At Amesbury, MA, I-95 stopped completely for a major accident. I bailed off the road and took secondary roads to the Salisbury exit 1/2 mile before the NH state line. I was following a Japanese CamCord up the highway on-ramp at 25 mph and there was a woman Mass state trooper "guarding the hole" for some construction on the on-ramp. She waves the CamCord on, points at me, and tells me to pull over. I get yelled at for 5 minutes for "driving too fast". I just shut my mouth and let her yell.

 

[bvibert]

I don't pay much attention to Jettas since I am a hatchback person but I thought the Mexican Jetta was now a totally different car from a MK VI Golf? Different (longer) wheelbase and different rear suspension. Different (lower grade) interior.

I believe the 2012 Jetta GLI is made in Europe and is a "real" MK VI Volkswagen. The others sold in the US are all the Mexican platform with the different interior and old school VW rear suspension. They upgrade the 2.slow engine to the I5 and ditch the rear drum brakes but it's still not the same mechanicals or interior as any Golf. The Jetta Sportwagen is also the "real" MK VI Volkswagen with the good interior and independent rear suspension.

I'm basing most of what I said above from what I could find on VW.com. For the Golfs they clearly state that they have a mulilink rear suspension, as opposed to the twist beam rear they list on the Jetta, or is that what you're saying? They don't list any of the 2012 Jettas so I can't say about the GLI.

I haven't really been paying much attention to the differences as of late, so it's quite possible that I'm misinformed, or missing something.

 

[Geoff]

I'm basing most of what I said above from what I could find on VW.com. For the Golfs they clearly state that they have a mulilink rear suspension, as opposed to the twist beam rear they list on the Jetta, or is that what you're saying? They don't list any of the 2012 Jettas so I can't say about the GLI.

I haven't really been paying much attention to the differences as of late, so it's quite possible that I'm misinformed, or missing something.

That is what I meant to say. I also added that the 2012 Jetta GLI (the Jetta version of the GTI) is German-built (I think) and has the same mechanicals & interior as a GTI.