Be careful driving in snowstorms in VT (or anywhere for that matter)

[billski]

I'm sure most of you are driving carefully anyways.

...
Motorists caught speeding during snowstorms will be the target of increased focus by the Vermont State Police following a rash of winter-related crashes, some involving motorists hitting cruisers
...
Sunday, troopers issued more than 100 speeding tickets in Chittenden, Franklin and Washington counties as a part of the state police’s new speeding and aggressive driving enforcement initiative.
...
The five troopers who were hit this winter were all stopped at accidents, Vermont State Police Capt. Daniel Troidl said. All five troopers were either in the breakdown lane or the passing lane with their lights flashing at the time of the accident.

...
This winter, 332 cars have slid off I-89. Since October, state troopers have issued 105 tickets for driving too fast for the conditions and more than 600 tickets for speeding on I-89.

http://burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20090212/NEWS02/90212008

 

[SkiDork]

question is, what constitutes too fast for the conditions? Its a little sketchy.

 

[roark]

question is, what constitutes too fast for the conditions? Its a little sketchy.

Agreed. My snowtire equipped AWD vehicle is much safer at any given speed than the RWD cruiser with all seasons.

"For the conditions" is a total judgement call.

 

[bvibert]

question is, what constitutes too fast for the conditions? Its a little sketchy.

Agreed. My snowtire equipped AWD vehicle is much safer at any given speed than the RWD cruiser with all seasons.

"For the conditions" is a total judgement call.

Agreed, very subjective. IMHO the only way that they can say you were driving too fast for the conditions is if you lost control of your vehicle.

 

[Highway Star]

Too fast is when you cannot brake and stop effectively for the conditions and visiblity.

 

[reefer]

Thanks Bill, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks except the man with the radar gun and pen..........how to buzzkill my morning.

 

[jaywbigred]

Thanks Bill, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks except the man with the radar gun and pen..........how to buzzkill my morning.

Truth right there. Pretty sad.

 

[riverc0il]

Fact is there really are a lot of folks going way too fast on I-89 in any condition. When I lived in VT, I drove 89 a lot between Montpelier and the Warren and Stowe exits and all the way up to Burlington. Not uncommon to be driving 70 and be passed by folks driving at least 80 (mostly VT plates, too). The general thread from the news post above seems to be don't be an idiot.

 

[billski]

Fact is there really are a lot of folks going way too fast on I-89 in any condition. When I lived in VT, I drove 89 a lot between Montpelier and the Warren and Stowe exits and all the way up to Burlington. Not uncommon to be driving 70 and be passed by folks driving at least 80 (mostly VT plates, too). The general thread from the news post above seems to be don't be an idiot.

+1. Driving it outside of Thurs/Fri night and Sunday afternoon "rush hour" is a world of difference. Much less stressful.

"Too Fast for Conditions" is an entirely reasonable judgment. I'll add "driving to endanger" to the list of Too fast for conditions" where you don't get in an accident but cause carnage behind you. Y'all just gotta slow down some. I'm sure you've passed me a few times, but I still get there.

 

[bvibert]

Fact is there really are a lot of folks going way too fast on I-89 in any condition. When I lived in VT, I drove 89 a lot between Montpelier and the Warren and Stowe exits and all the way up to Burlington. Not uncommon to be driving 70 and be passed by folks driving at least 80 (mostly VT plates, too). The general thread from the news post above seems to be don't be an idiot.

I understand that, I just don't like the subjectivity of the "driving too fast for conditions" citation, unless the driver has lost control of their vehicle.

 

[hardline]

i had cop pull me over for suposedly driving to fast. i was cruising along doing 50 in my truck with snowtires and 4 wheel drive in the passing lane. the trooper damn near slid off the road and hit someone. he then almost hit me when pullling me over then again when we where stopping. i fliped out on him. called the barracks flipped out them got them to admit what they did was wrong. they tried to use the excuse that other people would follow me. i told them other people are not my responsiblity and they make their own choices. then when pulling back onto the road the trooper got stuck.

 

[riverc0il]

I understand that, I just don't like the subjectivity of the "driving too fast for conditions" citation, unless the driver has lost control of their vehicle.

I don't know about VT, but in MA where I got my first license and took driver's ed, the rule is driving faster than conditions allow for safe travel is cause for a ticket as well. I think it is justifiable that an officer could make such a decision. I suspect they would only pull over the worst of offenders though.

 

[freezorburn]

Yeah,

I try and keep it under 100 when the weather is bad.

 

[mondeo]

I don't know about VT, but in MA where I got my first license and took driver's ed, the rule is driving faster than conditions allow for safe travel is cause for a ticket as well. I think it is justifiable that an officer could make such a decision. I suspect they would only pull over the worst of offenders though.

The problems is their judgement call is just that. I've been pulled over for taking an on ramp too fast. Not over the speed limit, just fast. Mass Trooper's comment was that it looked like I was almost going sideways. That's a judgement call.

But it's the wrong judgement call. He's grounded on people taking corners at maybe 0.1-0.2 lateral g-force. Say I was at 0.7-0.8g's. I've still got a bit to go before I'm even on the edge of control. And I know I wasn't even close to exceeding my car's grip, because I exceed it fairly often (typically on 4-lane road intersections, where I have a bit of runnout if I go too far.) The car was very planted. But because I was going 2-3x faster than most people around a turn like that (still under the speed limit,) the cop's judgement was that I was going too fast.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Like HS said if you can't stop pretty quickly in case you need to, than your driving too fast. It's all about being able to stop, just being able to keep it on the road as your speed benchmark is a recipe for disaster.

People in SUV's or 4 wheel-drive that drive like there is nobody else on the road or forgetting that an animal can run out in front of you or your coming around a corner and there is an incident ahead and you need to stop quickly are a road hazard. Driving too fast is why we read all too often about a multitude of pileups involving a bunch of vehicles when the roads are dicey.

 

[riverc0il]

The problems is their judgement call is just that. I've been pulled over for taking an on ramp too fast. Not over the speed limit, just fast. Mass Trooper's comment was that it looked like I was almost going sideways. That's a judgement call.

But it's the wrong judgement call. He's grounded on people taking corners at maybe 0.1-0.2 lateral g-force. Say I was at 0.7-0.8g's. I've still got a bit to go before I'm even on the edge of control. And I know I wasn't even close to exceeding my car's grip, because I exceed it fairly often (typically on 4-lane road intersections, where I have a bit of runnout if I go too far.) The car was very planted. But because I was going 2-3x faster than most people around a turn like that (still under the speed limit,) the cop's judgement was that I was going too fast.

Considering how many drivers on the road are doing dangerous things, especially during snow storms, personally... I will trust the cops opinion over a drivers. No offense intended. We are not taking about doing 70 in a 65 here. We are talking about folks potentially causing accidents when road conditions are bad. I am all for cops exercising judgment in cases like that. Maybe they will err on the side of caution too often. But perhaps they will also preempt a massive pile up of cars.

 

[tjf67]

Considering how many drivers on the road are doing dangerous things, especially during snow storms, personally... I will trust the cops opinion over a drivers. No offense intended. We are not taking about doing 70 in a 65 here. We are talking about folks potentially causing accidents when road conditions are bad. I am all for cops exercising judgment in cases like that. Maybe they will err on the side of caution too often. But perhaps they will also preempt a massive pile up of cars.

+1, they are hired to do a job.

 

[poconovfr]

Considering how many drivers on the road are doing dangerous things, especially during snow storms, personally... I will trust the cops opinion over a drivers. No offense intended. We are not taking about doing 70 in a 65 here. We are talking about folks potentially causing accidents when road conditions are bad. I am all for cops exercising judgment in cases like that. Maybe they will err on the side of caution too often. But perhaps they will also preempt a massive pile up of cars.

Hmmm.......................bunch of weekend wariors or a guy who spends all his time watching morons flip thier SUV's and picking up the pieces.......I gotta favor the guy who has to drive in the RWD cruiser. Face up, if you can pilot a Crown Vic in shitty weather......

 

[loafer89]

Try going less than 70mph on I-91 in Southern Vermont, no matter what the weather. Your likely to get tailgated and aggresively passed.

The accident that we passed on Route 2 west of St Johnsbury on sunday in the snow involved a Ford Expedition with NY plates. Alot of the rollover's and off road accidents seem to involve these suv's.

Driving home from Burke on I-91 on sunday was bliss until we reached exit 6 Ludlow/Rutland. Then it became a tailigating/speeding, nerve wracking pain in the @ss. Thankfully the weather was clear and the roads where dry.

 

[thetrailboss]

question is, what constitutes too fast for the conditions? Its a little sketchy.

Probably already in this thread, but VT is doing an ad blitz that the recommended speed limit in such storms is 45 on the interstates and 40 on other roads. It's been a bad winter for driving.