Best Season Pass For NW Vermont Resident.

[NYDrew]

OK, so I just settled in Essex (Just north of Burlington) and with the season approaching I am trying to decide on my season pass. Keep in mind, I work third shift and get out just in time to get first tracks. I work in Georgia. Here is what I got so far

Smuggs - 40 minutes from home. Easy access from work. $470
Bolton Valley - 40 minutes from home, opposite direction from work. $499
Stowe - 1 hour $1500????...what are they nuts?
Sugarbush - 1:10 $1150
Mad River - 1:10 $734
Jay Peak - 1:30, from work would cut off about 25 minutes $599

These are mostly 2009 prices. Are they freaking nuts, do any of them offer a discount because I live here? No commont on stowe (or sugarbush).

I'm leaning towards Smuggs for convenience, but its just so freaking crowded. I've never been to Bolton Valley and Jay Peak...well, it might just be worth the double trip.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

I've heard Smuggs get called a lot of things, but crowded isn't one of them. I guess it could be considered crowded in that you sometimes have to wait in 10-15 min liftlines on Sterling and Madona 1 but the low ratio of lift capacity to trail capacity means that the runs are almost never crowded, especially on Madona. There is also the easily accessible slackcountry to consider.

Bolton is going to provide less of a challenge but you will have zero competition for snow and equal access to slackcountry goodness. And night skiing to if you need to scratch the itch.

 

[jaytrem]

You're panning on skiing a lot of weekdays, correct? Does Smuggs have a midweek pass? And is it crowded during weekdays? Haven't been there in ages. The long drive to the other areas could get to be draining depending on how often you go. If I was able to ski a bunch of midweek days I'd try to grab a midweek pass from Smuggs and ski elsewhere on the weekends. Of course if you plan on skiing most weekends, it would probably be better to buy a full pass somewhere.

 

[riverc0il]

If I lived where you live, I would get a pass to Stowe. But that is just me.

Smuggs does have very long lift lines on weekends but it has some of the best trees around. For $470 and being the closest drive, it is probably worth dealing with for you. Personally, I couldn't deal with the lift lines at Smuggs and both times I went were mid-week. Bolton is pretty small and not much pitch but has BC options, night skiing, etc.

I had a pass at Jay for three seasons. Great mountain if you can get there first thing and learn your way around but Stowe has better terrain, better BC, and almost as much snow. With Jay, you don't get a lot of consistent vert from any lift. Can be a zoo when other areas are not getting the snow and Jay gets slammed. Which is a good and bad thing when you have a pass there.

Bush at $1150 doesn't seem much less than Stowe. They have really gotten up there in price but they don't get knocked for it like Stowe does. MRG you have lines on weekends and no snow making so you are at the mercy of mother nature and no recourse when the snow does not fall. Tough place to have a pass.

How about mixing things up and going pass free for the first season and just skiing on discounts at all of these mountains. Then you can try each place a few times so you can make a solid decision next year? Having been a pass holder before, I know that one limiting factor to having a pass is that you don't ski around quite as much because you are trying to maximize pass value.

If you go with a pass, go for a place that you like because you want to. Not because some guy on a forum recommends it. What makes me happy and unhappy with any given area might not be the same with you, especially if you ski different stuff than I do.

 

[NYDrew]

Right now I have to agree that I am leaning towards smuggs. No blackouts for a good price. Good BC and the only mountain I know better then it is Jay. Jay also offers a pretty sweet day pass deal to residents for when I need a change.

I want the weekend options so that when friends come up and visit I dont need a pass to go skiing. The main objections I have to smuggs is the bar scene and the FG lifts which create lines.

 

[deadheadskier]

I believe Sugarbush offers a Mt. Ellen pass for a substantial discount. I would get it for the weekends and look at some of the mid-week only passes available at other areas. I recall the Bash Badge Plus option at Smuggs being a good deal when I lived up there. Something like $129 and then it only cost you $20 each mid-week day you used it and the last six weeks or so of the season it was treated as a season pass.

I wouldn't be able to tolerate the weekend lift lines at Smuggs as my primary mountain.

 

[thetrailboss]

Depends on what you want to ski. Tell me then we can narrow it down.

Based on proximity, Smuggs or Bolton are best. Jay is not bad either because it is a good value and is really becoming something.

Forget Stowe. You aren't their market. Go there once on a promo day at least. Midweek passes are still expensive.

Sugarbush: they DO have cheaper options. Midweek passes for both mountains are significantly cheaper. Mount Ellen Plus is a full season pass good at Lincoln (LP) in preseason, Mount Ellen AND 5 days at LP midseason, and LP in the spring. No change in price from last season: $675 if bought early.

Mad River is another feasible option from Essex. If you are thinking purely from Georgia, look to Jay or Smuggs.

 

[billski]

Trailboss has some great ideas - just what I was thinking. Thoughts about Smuggs - Lifts are slow, and weekends can be pretty crowded. How many days are you expecting to ski in a season? You should also look around at affinity cards and see if by purchasing one you can get the cost down without committing to a pass. Look at some of the ski clubs - my club offers bulk ticket sales in the summer (actually they start tomorrow), often at half-price or less. You should also look at venues like Liftopia - there are a lot of consistent deals being offered if you purchase in advance. I've never had a season pass, mostly because I like to wander. I've found lots of deals in advance of and during ski season. Look back through past "skiing on the cheap" threads at this forum to get an idea what's out there. Of course it takes a little more work each day to scope and plan.

 

[NYDrew]

Personally, I'm planning on resuming my life of 100+ day seasons. Realistically not working on mountains anymore makes that difficult but I wouldn't mind having the option of taking a detour home from work on nice days and taking a few runs and leaving.

That is the reason I am leaning towards Smuggs, however, Jay has been my favorite mountain ever since my first time there 10 years ago. Sugarbush is a very close second with castlrock being some of the most awesome on piste skiing I've ever seen.

Probably going to go with Smuggs. Location, Price, Terrain. No matter what I choose, I spent the past 14 years trying to figure out a way to move into this area, if the worst of my problems is picking a mountain how can I possibly complain.

 

[thetrailboss]

Well it's clear that you want the best you can. 100 plus day seasons are impressive.

Smuggs is a good option if you are on a budget. It is a good place midweek and I've heard very good things about their glades and expert terrain which you might not expect since it is advertised as a family place and a great place for beginners. It is the only place in N-Vermont I have not skied. I do know that the lifts are very old and very slow. Hopefully that does not bore you. After that, Jay and Sugarbush are good options. If Stowe was cheaper, I'd say go for that.

If Jay is your favorite, don't fight it because it is a great place if you love trees and want deep snow. Longest season in the east for 2009-2010. Best glades. FWIW it will be about the same price as Smuggs for a regular season pass. Be prepared to hike for the goods because they get a lot of wind with the snow. But, they do have good customer service and very good value for the money. I was a passholder a while back and they do a good job. Will they be the "first" to open in the east? Not necessarily so. They make enough snow to get things going on Stateside and then slowly work their way from left to right on the trail map. But then again, they clearly get the most natural of anyone in New England, so it doesn't matter much, especially if you head for the woods.

 

[deadheadskier]

I don't necessarily consider the Smuggs lifts to be slow as far as fixed lifts go. Madonna ride actually seems pretty quick for how long it is once you get on the chair.

It's just the capacity of the lifts there that drives me crazy. It reminds me of being a kid waiting in monster lines on the Killington Peak double in the 80s. Family programs and abundant slopeside lodging aside, I am always suprised at the number of people who deal with it on a weekend.

No doubt, the terrain is top 5 for an expert skier in the East.

 

[thetrailboss]

Thanks DHS, re: lines, not slow lifts being the problem. That's a good point. I wonder how the lines compare at Smuggs to the fixed grips at Jay on a busy day (like Bonnie or Jet). Maybe Riv can testify to the comparison.

 

[riverc0il]

Thanks DHS, re: lines, not slow lifts being the problem. That's a good point. I wonder how the lines compare at Smuggs to the fixed grips at Jay on a busy day (like Bonnie or Jet). Maybe Riv can testify to the comparison.

I have only skied Smuggs on a weekday so I can not compare. Though one of those weekdays was a 7" powder day but it was definitely an under the radar powder day as even I had not expected more than a few inches.

One of the key differences regardless of day of the week is that Smuggs does not have singles lines since it is a Double. The line manager pairs up singles as they get to the front of the line. Usually being a single skier, this is of some importance to me regarding weekend lines. Though what usually happens at Jay is groups break down into singles so maybe it is 6 of one, half dozen of the other. All that said, I was surprised that I waited in the Steerling Double line mid-week longer than I would wait in a Jay singles line on a weekend. Based on my limited experience, Smuggs lines seem like they are definitely longer than Jay but that is based on limited mid-week experience only. I really don't see lines being an issue at Jay unless it is a big powder day that the rest of the area didn't get.

DHS is right on that the lifts are not slow. M1 actually moves along quite well for an older double. It probably just "feels" slow because it is not a HSQ which folks get used to AND it is one of the longest lines in the northeast. I can't think of any single lift that services more vertical than the M1.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

DHS is right on that the lifts are not slow. M1 actually moves along quite well for an older double. It probably just "feels" slow because it is not a HSQ which folks get used to AND it is one of the longest lines in the northeast. I can't think of any single lift that services more vertical than the M1.

Well, the Single at MRG is its equal in terms of vertical. Same, IIRC, as the quad at Wildcat. Of course there is the tram at Jay, but that goes by a wee bit quicker. Not sure I'd count Skyeship stage 1 and 2, but that would fit the bill as well. Also, I think both the gondola and the quad at Stowe are almost exactly 2000' as well. And of course the Tram at Cannon if we're counting trams. Biggest vert of any lift is the Cloudsplitter gondola at Whiteface, clocking in at 2400' vert.

Regardless, Riv's point stands that it's a really long lift which, along with the Single at MRG is longer than any fixed grip lift in the NE, thereby accentuating the slow feel.

 

[riverc0il]

Well, the Single at MRG is its equal in terms of vertical. Same, IIRC, as the quad at Wildcat. Of course there is the tram at Jay, but that goes by a wee bit quicker. Not sure I'd count Skyeship stage 1 and 2, but that would fit the bill as well. Also, I think both the gondola and the quad at Stowe are almost exactly 2000' as well. And of course the Tram at Cannon if we're counting trams. Biggest vert of any lift is the Cloudsplitter gondola at Whiteface, clocking in at 2400' vert.

I couldn't resist checking exact numbers. It looks like Madonna I is 2100' (I thought it was more than that for some reason) so I stand corrected on a few lifts that are a touch more vertical including Cannon's Tram and Whiteface. MRG shows 2037' for total mountain vertical, Wildcat is 2112' total so the Quad is about the same vert as Madonna (the beginner lift starts below the Quad so without an exact number, this could be open for debate). Jay's total vertical is 2015', and Stowe's total is 2160' but that includes the Toll House so I suspect the Quad and Gondi are under 2100'. Safe to say it is the fixed grip with the most vert in the east with not too many high speeders in that league even though at least two surpass it in vert.

All this talk of Smuggs makes me anxious to get back there this coming season!

 

[Tin Woodsman]

I couldn't resist checking exact numbers. It looks like Madonna I is 2100' (I thought it was more than that for some reason) so I stand corrected on a few lifts that are a touch more vertical including Cannon's Tram and Whiteface. MRG shows 2037' for total mountain vertical, Wildcat is 2112' total so the Quad is about the same vert as Madonna (the beginner lift starts below the Quad so without an exact number, this could be open for debate). Jay's total vertical is 2015', and Stowe's total is 2160' but that includes the Toll House so I suspect the Quad and Gondi are under 2100'. Safe to say it is the fixed grip with the most vert in the east with not too many high speeders in that league even though at least two surpass it in vert.

All this talk of Smuggs makes me anxious to get back there this coming season!

It's 2100,? I guess in the back of my mind, I had always understood that the original developer of Smuggs had put the base of Madona 1 below the lodge so that it would eek out 2000' of vert. At least according to Google maps, it appears to be almost exactly 2000'. Not that the extra 100' matters - it's long and cold.

 

[campgottagopee]

100% Smuggs!!! Terrain, terrian, terrain--slack country all over the place---get hooked up with some locals and it'll get even better. Wicked easy getting over to Stowe on big POW days for Hellsbrook...etc

 

[riverc0il]

It's 2100,? I guess in the back of my mind, I had always understood that the original developer of Smuggs had put the base of Madona 1 below the lodge so that it would eek out 2000' of vert. At least according to Google maps, it appears to be almost exactly 2000'. Not that the extra 100' matters - it's long and cold.

I had a hard time finding the Madonna 1 vert any where on the net. But I did find 2100 in a few places including FTO and I trust Guido's accuracy in that. I read somewhere that the IBM developer placed the loading station below the lodge to have the lift with the most vert at the time. However, that would include beating out the Cannon tram I would imagine or was it just for chair lifts? Any ways, I had a tough time finding references but I did find several 2100' references including one that I definitely trust.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

I had a hard time finding the Madonna 1 vert any where on the net. But I did find 2100 in a few places including FTO and I trust Guido's accuracy in that. I read somewhere that the IBM developer placed the loading station below the lodge to have the lift with the most vert at the time. However, that would include beating out the Cannon tram I would imagine or was it just for chair lifts? Any ways, I had a tough time finding references but I did find several 2100' references including one that I definitely trust.

Well....

Agree to disagree.

 

[riverc0il]

Agree to disagree.

You are not disagreeing with me. You are disagreeing with my sources without having found any sources of your own. :grin: