Black Mountain, NH OPEN AGAIN more alive than ever

[deadheadskier]

I still think the Co-op model is pretty wishful thinking. It certainly would be cool if it happens.

I wonder if Cranmore would be interested in the place for the right price? That certainly would make a compelling MWV multi mountain pass option as an alternative to the devil.

 

[Newpylong]

It may be wishful thinking, but it's the only way forward for them, so it's either going to work or it's not.

 

[AdironRider]

Yeah, Erik is clearly dumping a shitload of money into this, but it is more of a marketing exercise for Indy and I'm not sure that is sustainable for a coop to maintain.

 

[machski]

Yeah, Erik is clearly dumping a shitload of money into this, but it is more of a marketing exercise for Indy and I'm not sure that is sustainable for a coop to maintain.

Perhaps. However, if the co-op covers the cost of asset carrying, and the good will/word of mouth of ops this season carry forward, that model could very well be sustainable.

 

[millerm277]

Yeah, Erik is clearly dumping a shitload of money into this, but it is more of a marketing exercise for Indy and I'm not sure that is sustainable for a coop to maintain.

I don't think he wants to be in that business long-term either, but at the same time I'm not sure the place needs "shitloads of money" dumped into it continuously, either.

There's the big caveat of making sure the bank account has the funds lined up for replacing that double chair at some point, but otherwise if the snowmaking system is in reasonable order + has decently modern gear so it's not so expensive to run, if people are showing up it shouldn't be some endless money pit.

 

[Newpylong]

There are two things that are going on:

1) They're trying to have an extremely successful season for A) to restore faith in the mountain/product and B) which will naturally be more appealing when someone thinks about buying into the coop. Having a successful season has required a lot of capital for equipment, snowmaking, and staffing.

2) There is a number that they believe will be required to have in the bank going forward for operating capital. It is not a small number.

 

[AdironRider]

I don't disagree Black needed investment, but I think consumers are smart and aren't going to pay Erik back for his Indy advertising adventure in full like he wants, even if he is packaging it as "saving" Black. The level of spend is unsustainable for a mountain that size, and definitely for a coop to maintain long term.

For example, running cat skiing to the summit (with a documentary film crew in tow) is a bit over the top marketing spend but yet, based on the proposed per share price, Erik wants coop members to pay him back for all of that and then some. He is saying you need a consistent product, but is operating in a manner that prevents consistency for the new group.

 

[deadheadskier]

I question where the $5M figure for coop sustainability comes from.

MRG works as a coop because

A. It has arguably the best expert terrain in the East with a cult like following that wants to ski it

B. It doesn't face south and averages 200" plus per year.

Black has some really cool and unique terrain, but MRG it is not. It also faces South and gets maybe 120" a season, so it needs vastly more snowmaking. Then there's the lifts that will soon need attention.

I'm not sure what the answer is outside of some angel investor coming in to save the day.

I really do hope it makes it. I have had some great days there over the years.

 

[eatskisleep]

The funniest thing is, although $5 million is a lot up there, you look at houses in the Boston area or the suburbs nearby, places like Newton, hingham, Cohasset etc and $5 million is spent all the time. It’s like a drop in the bucket for some of these people. I know of someone who is building a house in the next town over: 16,000 sq ft, and the pool house is 6,000 sq ft. Cost of about $20 million. Insanity. If I had the dough, I’d buy a ski area before I’d buy a house that big… but then again I’m a skier posting on a ski forum, so I’m probably not in the majority here

 

[deadheadskier]

The idea of owning a ski area is tantalizing. The idea of trying to make money with a ski area is terrifying.

I'll obviously never have the resources, but if I did, I'd want to have so much of it that I could basically fund the operation with an endowment and not be reliant on operational profit. I'd absolutely do that if I were a billionaire looking to invest in my favorite hobby. Buy Wildcat, refresh all the infrastructure and have the endowment fund all the snowmaking, maintenance and energy expenses, taxes and insurance? You betcha.

The world needs more philanthropic billionaire ski bums!

 

[machski]

The idea of owning a ski area is tantalizing. The idea of trying to make money with a ski area is terrifying.

I'll obviously never have the resources, but if I did, I'd want to have so much of it that I could basically fund the operation with an endowment and not be reliant on operational profit. I'd absolutely do that if I were a billionaire looking to invest in my favorite hobby. Buy Wildcat, refresh all the infrastructure and have the endowment fund all the snowmaking, maintenance and energy expenses, taxes and insurance? You betcha.

The world needs more philanthropic billionaire ski bums!

The only fly in that ointment at WC is you wouldn't be able to build a slopeside home for yourself there

 

[deadheadskier]

The only fly in that ointment at WC is you wouldn't be able to build a slopeside home for yourself there

True, but the lack of real estate happens to be one of the most endearing qualities of Wildcat for me. Just a ski area. Not a resort.

I'm sure I'd survive just fine slumming it in my mansion in Jackson.

Now I just need to scour my lineage against the Forbes 400 richest list and find that inheritance. Haha

 

[pinion]

the lack of real estate happens to be one of the most endearing qualities of Wildcat for me

I think I've shared this story before elsewhere here, but a few years back I was on the Bobcat triple with a kid that came with a bus group and was lamenting the non-existent bubble lifts and slope-side condo like "everywhere else".

I did not ski this year, but still managed to have a great time at Black, as did my family who were skiing. If next year Black can achieve 60% of what they did this year, then that's still 100% better than how things had been going for the 15 years prior.

 

[Newpylong]

I am supposed to make more snow there this weekend. Spring base building Upper Maple to Chute to Standard, (which is already pretty stacked.)

 

[AdironRider]

The idea of owning a ski area is tantalizing. The idea of trying to make money with a ski area is terrifying.

I'll obviously never have the resources, but if I did, I'd want to have so much of it that I could basically fund the operation with an endowment and not be reliant on operational profit. I'd absolutely do that if I were a billionaire looking to invest in my favorite hobby. Buy Wildcat, refresh all the infrastructure and have the endowment fund all the snowmaking, maintenance and energy expenses, taxes and insurance? You betcha.

The world needs more philanthropic billionaire ski bums!

The problem is when you make that much money you aim a little higher (ala Killington and Jackson Hole) for your ski area ownership plans.

 

[AdironRider]

I am supposed to make more snow there this weekend. Spring base building Upper Maple to Chute to Standard, (which is already pretty stacked.)

Man, despite my naysaying about the Coop, it is a great year to ski Black with them just throwing caution to the wind financially.

 

[Smellytele]

The problem is when you make that much money you aim a little higher (ala Killington and Jackson Hole) for your ski area ownership plans.

Killington? Fuck that!

 

[deadheadskier]

The problem is when you make that much money you aim a little higher (ala Killington and Jackson Hole) for your ski area ownership plans.

Opinions vary. I wouldn't. I'm not into large resorts for the most part and I certainly would have zero interest with properties that have lodging to manage in addition to ski operations. Bigger resort - bigger headaches.

We're not talking about a way to add more to my hypothetical riches. More a hobby than anything, like the Balsams was.

Fix the lifts
Upgrade the snowmaking
Expand the pond
Operate from 11/1 - 5/1

Lift serviced MTB and a disc golf course for the summer to keep a core group employed.

Done

 

[AdironRider]

Well I mean, if I was a billionaire I'd buy Jackson, boot Ikon and all the hotels, and keep it for me and my friends. Basically everyone's dream Indy place.

I might even be convinced to go back to it being just a 2-3 lift operation with just the Tram, AV and maybe a beginner lift for the grand kids.

 

[Hastur]

Well I mean, if I was a billionaire I'd buy Jackson, boot Ikon and all the hotels, and keep it for me and my friends. Basically everyone's dream Indy place.

I might even be convinced to go back to it being just a 2-3 lift operation with just the Tram, AV and maybe a beginner lift for the grand kids.

I thought you left for family health reasons? Don't make it seem like you can go back or that you left for other reasons.