CR: Lexus SUV "safety risk"

[severine]

One can debate the need for such safety devices (I am one who believes a driver should not need nor rely on such intervention), but the fact that they are there means they should work as intended. Toyota's does not and this is more dangerous than not having it at all as it gives a false sense of security.

Isn't relying upon these sorts of things having a false sense of security anyway? Again, one should know how to *drive*--relying upon electronic equipment that is prone to failure (the more electronic parts, the more things to break) is asking for trouble.

I'm not that old and I think people are just too damn soft. If you drove like you should be, there wouldn't be the "need" for these ancillary products.

 

[Edd]

I'm clearly in the minority here (perhaps alone) about having ESC on cars. The system is certainly not to be "relied" upon for anything day to day. It won't come into play 99.9999% of your life putting it into the same category as helmets and seatbelts.

I'm sure everyone here is a super-capable driver but the inescapable fact is people are idiots or just really bad drivers. Our laws are powerless to raise someon'e IQ so, for the public good, we put buffers between acts of stupidity and death.

I, for one, will never rely on ESC any more than I rely on my seatbelt. I'll just drive as well as I can.

 

[marcski]

I just keep thinking its going to take Toyota a long time to get their name and safety back together again in the same sentence. Remember the old "acceleration problem" in the Audi 5000. Took awhile for Audi to recoup from that one....but I must say they have come back very strong...so if you got that Toyota stock maybe hold on for the long haul.

 

[Glenn]

I just keep thinking its going to take Toyota a long time to get their name and safety back together again in the same sentence. Remember the old "acceleration problem" in the Audi 5000. Took awhile for Audi to recoup from that one....but I must say they have come back very strong...so if you got that Toyota stock maybe hold on for the long haul.

Audi almost had to pull out of the US market because of that. For a few years after that "problem", sales were poor. Amazing how hitting the wrong pedal and almost sink a brand.

 

[HD333]

. Amazing how hitting the wrong pedal and almost sink a brand.

Amazing how fast the press can almost sink a brand.

Like others have said, using common sense is quickly fading away in this country.
HD

 

[Geoff]

I'm clearly in the minority here (perhaps alone) about having ESC on cars. The system is certainly not to be "relied" upon for anything day to day. It won't come into play 99.9999% of your life putting it into the same category as helmets and seatbelts.

I'm sure everyone here is a super-capable driver but the inescapable fact is people are idiots or just really bad drivers. Our laws are powerless to raise someon'e IQ so, for the public good, we put buffers between acts of stupidity and death.

I, for one, will never rely on ESC any more than I rely on my seatbelt. I'll just drive as well as I can.

I'd rather have good snow tires. On dry roads, I don't out-drive the car so I don't need stability control. If you're tailgating while talking on the cell phone or are otherwise distracted, it's pretty easy to get in a situation where you roll an SUV.

 

[bvibert]

Like others have said, using common sense is quickly fading away in this country.
HD

Don't worry they'll just keep coming up with new widgets to make up for it. Common sense is obsolete technology... :roll:

 

[Paul]

Holy Shit! A Smitty sighting!!

 

[Glenn]

Don't worry they'll just keep coming up with new widgets to make up for it. Common sense is obsolete technology... :roll:

It went out the window along with personal responsibility. If you crash, it's the fault of the vehicle. Forget the fact that a vehicle cannot operate without human input...still the fault of the inanimate object.

 

[smitty77]

Holy Shit! A Smitty sighting!!

I know, huh? Been a long time, and I've lurked off and on, but this Toyota business caused me to pull the trigger.

Snowy or wet-weather conditions won't result in that type of vehicle response, though. You need serious weight transfer to get the type of oversteer that's shown in the video. Low traction just results in slides, not pitching the car sideways like that. The occasional fishtail, but that's a different beast again. Traction control, not stability. There's a difference.

According to the originally quoted article:
"In normal cases, the electronic stability control should quickly correct the loss of control and keep the SUV on its intended path. But with the GX 460, the stability control took too long to adjust, which could cause a rollover accident if one of the sliding wheels were to strike the curb or another obstacle, said Gabriel Shenhar, Consumer Reports' senior auto test engineer who was one of four testers who experienced the problem."

And the bold text is what I'm talking about. I think this problem has less to do with the stability control than it does the time at which intervention is applied to avoid getting sideways to begin with. And through my experience this problem is not limited to just the vehicle in question. It seems CR was concerned with striking a curb or gutter while sliding, and not as concerned with the pitching of the vehicle by itself. Which brings me to:

Isn't relying upon these sorts of things having a false sense of security anyway?

Yes and no. ABS is common on every vehicle because it works. Sure you can stop a car quicker by pumping the brakes but I've had the ABS save my bacon once or twice in some very icy driving conditions. "Rely on" is probably not the right term. I can't say I would rely on it as much as I would appreciate it's help if I ever do get in over my head and can't recover the vehicle. Long story short: The Toyota system is as useless as teets on a bull, IMHO.