Creditors Force Liftopia into Bankruptcy

[VTKilarney]

No problem BG. I have a buddy who put together a last minute 4 day trip to Killington last year with his wife and three kids. He is a two to three times a year skier who will never buy a pass. No discounted lift tickets. With lodging, lift tickets, food and misc expenses he spent over $3,000 to ski in crowded, crappy conditions. Not the ski resorts fault but yeah, its expensive for people who haven figured out how to shave a few dollars off here and there.

That's an insane amount of money to spend on a four day New England ski trip. For the same money he could have flown the family to Florida for a week and stayed in a condo near the beach.

You have to wonder how many families will blow this kind of money now that the economy is on much shakier footing.

 

[cdskier]

That's an insane amount of money to spend on a four day New England ski trip. For the same money he could have flown the family to Florida for a week and stayed in a condo near the beach.

You have to wonder how many families will blow this kind of money now that the economy is on much shakier footing.

Judging by how many families still spend that much if not more to go down the Jersey shore for a week...I really don't think the price is as crazy as it sounds. And "going down the shore" was considered a "cheap" family vacation when I was a kid while skiing was never exactly considered a "cheap" activity.

 

[VTKilarney]

Judging by how many families still spend that much if not more to go down the Jersey shore for a week...I really don't think the price is as crazy as it sounds. And "going down the shore" was considered a "cheap" family vacation when I was a kid while skiing was never exactly considered a "cheap" activity.

Maybe I am just a frugal Yankee, but even if I can afford something I have to perceive value in order to spend the money. $3,000 for a four day New England ski trip is not a value proposition for me.

But, hey. Those hotels aren't sitting empty.

 

[Cobbold]

Don’t have kids, but it is always good to spend time with the family and create memories for the kids to last a lifetime.

 

[VTKilarney]

Don’t have kids, but it is always good to spend time with the family and create memories for the kids to last a lifetime.

Honestly, in today's society everything revolves around "the kids." For example, youth sports have become out of control. If you don't pick a sport and specialize in it you are doomed. And kids no longer play games. They are now in full blown tournaments just about every week. Parents spend thousands and thousands of dollars on private coaches, hotel rooms, travel, etc.

I know that I sound like an old man, but I miss the days when sports were about both competition and having fun.

 

[Cobbold]

Honestly, in today's society everything revolves around "the kids." For example, youth sports have become out of control. If you don't pick a sport and specialize in it you are doomed. And kids no longer play games. They are now in full blown tournaments just about every week. Parents spend thousands and thousands of dollars on private coaches, hotel rooms, travel, etc.

I know that I sound like an old man, but I miss the days when sports were about both competition and having fun.

When I was kid a million years ago we played sports, baseball summer, football in the fall hockey in the winter outside, basketball during the spring, never see kids doing that anymore, haven’t seen it in decades really

 

[gregnye]

Not sure why Waterville valley hasn’t joined

Tom

Not surprised that Waterville hasn't joined, if there's a smart decision you can always count on them to do the exact opposite.

Examples:

1. Green Peak expansion with a relocated World Cup Triple and not a high speed lift.
2. Removal of the high country chair, T-Bar replacement.
3. Planned removal of the Northside chair, with no planned replacement.
4. When the ski areas were forced to close initially due to COVID-19, rather than a standard "sorry folks but in the interest of safety, the state has ordered us to close", they instead had a passive-aggressive message.

I swear if Waterville weren't on the I-93 corridor it would out of business 5 years ago. And this is coming from a former Waterville skier.

 

[Cobbold]

Looking at New England ski resort news/history and skier visits at Waterville valley looks like a steady decline in skier visits, looks like Waterville Valley is doing something wrong

 

[Smellytele]

Besides the lift decisions most of the trails are rather boring. Long straight wide trails, hardly any glades. They should had added some glades on green peak. They are stuck in the 80’s/early 90’s trail wise.


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[EPB]

Not surprised that Waterville hasn't joined, if there's a smart decision you can always count on them to do the exact opposite.

Examples:

1. Green Peak expansion with a relocated World Cup Triple and not a high speed lift.
2. Removal of the high country chair, T-Bar replacement.
3. Planned removal of the Northside chair, with no planned replacement.
4. When the ski areas were forced to close initially due to COVID-19, rather than a standard "sorry folks but in the interest of safety, the state has ordered us to close", they instead had a passive-aggressive message.

I swear if Waterville weren't on the I-93 corridor it would out of business 5 years ago. And this is coming from a former Waterville skier.

Haha this sounds a lot like my complaints with how Attitash has been run in the last 20 years. Brutal.

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[Cobbold]

Haha this sounds a lot like my complaints with how Attitash has been run in the last 20 years. Brutal.

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Hopefully, if vail survives, we survive, vail will take attitash to the next level, skied their once, liked it, has an unfinished vibe about it.

Hoping to get their this winter

 

[thetrailboss]

As I figured, the issue was payments Liftopia owed through the Mountain Collective deal. This article revealed that Aspen was the "managing partner" of that program.

https://www.aspentimes.com/news/asp...ve-business-fallout-over-mountain-collective/

 

[Killingtime]

How does the Attorney for Alterra, Boyne and A-Basin eff this up so badly that the case gets dismissed on a minor dollar amount discrepancy and technicality? Tough lesson for Alterra. It seems like this would be something their lawyers should have known beforehand. Wow.

"The Federal Bankruptcy Court in the Northern District of California on Thursday dismissed the involuntary Chapter 11 Bankruptcy petition filed against Liftopia in early June by four ski companies. The ruling removes as an option a powerful legal tool that could have helped the ski companies retrieve the nearly $3 million that Liftopia does not dispute it still collectively owes them.

The ruling, signed by U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Hannah L. Blumenstiel, dismissed the petition on two grounds: 1) the ski companies overstated the amounts Liftopia owed them, meaning the petition was subject to what is called a “bona fide dispute”; and 2) the ski companies therefore lacked standing to pursue this particular type of legal action."

https://skiing.substack.com/p/liftopia-dodges-involuntary-chapter

 

[BenedictGomez]

That is very surprising, no doubt. Seems like very sloppy legal work.

But to me this is the real shocking bit:

On July 16, the ski companies filed additional documents with the court accepting Liftopia’s revisions, admitting that they had no independent source of the company’s transactional data, had always relied on Liftopia to calculate payments, and had never had a “meaningful dispute” as to the amounts calculated.

Today I learned that ski area accounting & finance is amateur hour. The foxes count the chickens.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Net/net, Liftopia's still owes > $3M, so it appears they're still screwed if they cant pay up.

 

[p_levert]

Looks like Liftopia has been bought out: https://twitter.com/ozskier/status/1296891443009605632/photo/1

 

[BenedictGomez]

Interesting. I'm gonna' take a W.A.G. and guess hedge fund.

 

[p_levert]

I would guess that Liftopia is being bought by one of the ski areas that is owed money, and said ski area also has a strong interest in making sure that the platform continues to function. Actually, it might be a partnership of several indy ski areas.

On the dark side, it could be bought by Vail or Alterra, with the long term plan of letting it fall apart and further crippling indy ski areas. Shit like that does happen.

As a true outsider, there's Doug Fish and the Indy Pass. Not impossible, but I don't get the impression that Mr. Fish has a ton of dough to spend. But never say never.

As the ultimate outsider, there's BenedictGomez. Knows everything, so must be rich. Also great people skills, so sure to be good at maintaining relationships with the various ski areas.

 

[BenedictGomez]

As the ultimate outsider, there's BenedictGomez. Knows everything, so must be rich.

You're such a douchebagger it's ridiculous. I'm sorry I made a fool of you in prior threads. Let it go.

 

[djd66]

As the ultimate outsider, there's BenedictGomez. Knows everything, so must be rich. Also great people skills, so sure to be good at maintaining relationships with the various ski areas.

That is funny!!