Five Year anniversary Station Club Fire

[pedxing]

Five years ago today the headlines were full of news about last years tragedy and hundreds of people had begun a fight for their lives. Here's a powerful personal reflection from one of the survivors:

http://blogs.townonline.com/finer_u/?p=3272

 

[Marc]

The sad thing is sprinkler technology is over 120 years old and yet we still require tragedies of this magnitude to bring the issue to our attention every so often.

 

[njskier]

The sad thing is sprinkler technology is over 120 years old and yet we still require tragedies of this magnitude to bring the issue to our attention every so often.

Amen. Every commercial/Multi family building should be sprinklered. Here in NJ were still fighting to get all highrise"s retrofited. No reason for that!

 

[pedxing]

Excellent point. The cost for sprinklers is not extravagant and insurance savings cut that down further. At least one of the owners of the Station Nightclub owners has become, albeit a little late, a born again advocate of sprinklers.

I'm going down to Providence for the anniversary benefit event to show some support ( http://www.myspace.com/stationbenefitconcert )

 

[Marc]

Yeah, that's exactly the problem... being a born again advocate is what we don't need, because it generally means said advocate was a close witness to an extreme tragedy thus motivating the change of heart.

Fire is one of those strange events that happens just infrequently enough to most people for them to be extremely apathetic, but catstrophic enough to still be an extreme danger to those with the apathy.

 

[dmc]

We stopped using pyrotechnics in small places at our gigs after that... Actually darkly kidding...
Cause - who uses pyrotechnics in a small venue?

It was a horrible event.. But it definitely got the attention of some people..

 

[Marc]

We stopped using pyrotechnics in small places at our gigs after that... Actually darkly kidding...
Cause - who uses pyrotechnics in a small venue?

It was a horrible event.. But it definitely got the attention of some people..

But only lasts so long. Amazing that so many years after horrible tragedies like Cocanut Grove, and the fact we know how to prevent them, that things like MGM Grand or the Station Night Club can happen.

 

[deadheadskier]

The sad thing is sprinkler technology is over 120 years old and yet we still require tragedies of this magnitude to bring the issue to our attention every so often.

I remember watching the building/fire inspector's response to why there was no sprinkler system.

Inspector, "We have determined that older buildings with a capacity of less than 300 people do not need to come into code."

Reporter, "Sir what is the science behind that determination? Why 300?"

Inspector, "um, um, um....."


definitely a horrible tragedy, but as Marc pointed out, very preventable, but probably will happen again as as soon as the shock goes away, often so does the efforts to change things.

 

[pedxing]

I appreciate this discussion. Having lived through a fire and severe burns (not at the Station Nightclub), I'm glad to read your remarks.

I do, however, want to say that a born again advocate is better than no advocate and for a lot of small business owners - seeing one of their own go through this, tell his story and warn people to be sure not to make the same mistakes has an impact.

Another example of an easy to address fire safety problem is the fire-safe cigarettes. All it takes is to create "speed bumps" on cigarette paper so that the cigarette will go out if no one is taking a drag on it for a while. It creates only a tiny inconvenience for the smoker and adds a tiny bit to the cost of a cigarette, but can save lives. It's been mostly insurance companies and people who have lived through fires who have been able to get some movement on this issue.

 

[Marc]

I appreciate this discussion. Having lived through a fire and severe burns (not at the Station Nightclub), I'm glad to read your remarks.

I do, however, want to say that a born again advocate is better than no advocate and for a lot of small business owners - seeing one of their own go through this, tell his story and warn people to be sure not to make the same mistakes has an impact.

Another example of an easy to address fire safety problem is the fire-safe cigarettes. All it takes is to create "speed bumps" on cigarette paper so that the cigarette will go out if no one is taking a drag on it for a while. It creates only a tiny inconvenience for the smoker and adds a tiny bit to the cost of a cigarette, but can save lives. It's been mostly insurance companies and people who have lived through fires who have been able to get some movement on this issue.

That's true, I worded my post poorly. What I intended to say was it's preferable to have people who are fire safety conscious without the need to be converted by a close call.

And there are lots of national organizations who are de facto advocate organizations that get things goinog aside from individual citizens and insurance companies, like the NFPA, NFSA, SFPE, NBC to name a few. Also state and local AHJ's. It was one state Fire Marshal requiring the use of home smoke detectors in the 70's that led every other state in the nation to do the same.

 

[kickstand]

Every year I can never pull myself to read or watch any of the stuff about the Station fire. I had been there for concerts several times, and I had asked a friend of mine about going to this show. In the end, I decided not to go because I was just getting back from Whistler a couple days prior to the show. To trek from north of Boston and back, and still go to work the next day would have been rough. As it turns out, I blew out my ACL in Whistler and probably would have had to bag on the show had we decided to order tickets. I actually got a call from a friend who had moved to Chicago because she thought this show was something I would have gone to. Luckily I didn't.

 

[Marc]

Here's some advice for everyone that applies to this thread... when going to a crowded bar or club... first thing you should look for when you come in are the EXIT signs... second thing, look to see if there is a sprinkler system... third thing, if you do feel uncomfortable with the crowd to exit ratio, position yourself close to an emergency exit.

And on the subject of emergency exits... it almost always pays to head for an exit that isn't the main entrance. In an emergency, since most people don't take note of emergency exits when they enter a building, nor do they have the presence of mind to find one in an emergency, they almost always look to exit via the door they entered. You'll get out much quicker avoiding it.

Another of my favorite movie quotes:

"I never walk into a place I don't know how to walk out of."

-Sam, Ronin

 

[ctenidae]

The Exit sign on my floor in the office points to the wall, not the stairwell.

oops.

 

[kickstand]

And on the subject of emergency exits... it almost always pays to head for an exit that isn't the main entrance. In an emergency, since most people don't take note of emergency exits when they enter a building, nor do they have the presence of mind to find one in an emergency, they almost always look to exit via the door they entered. You'll get out much quicker avoiding it.

I'd be willing to bet that's exactly what happened at the Station. I don't know where all the exits were, but I do know there was one just past the stage, right where the bands would enter from. Going out that one may have seemed counter-intuitive (running sort of towards the fire), but it was probably the closest exit for many. Also, there was a large room off to the right with a couple of pool tables and huge plate glass windows. I wonder if anyone tried breaking those to get out and to let some of the smoke escape.

 

[Paul]

I'd be willing to bet that's exactly what happened at the Station. I don't know where all the exits were, but I do know there was one just past the stage, right where the bands would enter from. Going out that one may have seemed counter-intuitive (running sort of towards the fire), but it was probably the closest exit for many. Also, there was a large room off to the right with a couple of pool tables and huge plate glass windows. I wonder if anyone tried breaking those to get out and to let some of the smoke escape.

Unfortunately, it would also let oxygen-rich air in. Might cause a back-draft. I'm no expert, though.

 

[pedxing]

Here's an article from the Providence Journal about the benefit:

http://www.projo.com/music/content/STATIONREV_02-26-08_2P958J3_v7.37fca3a.html

Marc - all good points.

I went to the benefit concert last night. It went well. They didn't sell out the place, but they got more than 5000 people. VH1 and CMT are both going to broadcast at least some of the concert. It was good to see performers who really felt moved to help fans in need. People held up cell phones with the light on instead of lighters.

Kickstand - that's quite a story. A real, "there but for fortune."

Poorly marked exits, bad access and some doors that opened in, not out, were among the problems at the Station.

 

[SkiDork]

re: fire safety awareness...

As a WTC survivor, but not having to face any of the fire that some did (thank god) I wasn't really in tune with how horrible it is (making the choice between jumping or running into a fire)

That all changed a few years ago at the snow nymphs annual bonfire (usually in May at Killington) when I walked close to the rather large bonfire...

I felt that intense heat and literally started crying, knowing what those people must have felt in the towers, and for that matter in the station fire.

From that point on, I take fire safety very seriously. I'm converted.

 

[pedxing]

Another amazing story SD. I think a lot about the people who faced the flames in the WTC every year when I get involved with the Flags on the 48, and about the firefighters who met injury and death trying to help them.

 

[Marc]

Unfortunately, it would also let oxygen-rich air in. Might cause a back-draft. I'm no expert, though.

Nah, the fire at that point hadn't become totally oxygen limited, but even if it was approaching that stage, you have to have a pretty tightly sealed compartment to risk a backdraft, along with cessation of combustion. Venting horizontally at that point would have probably made conditions tenable slightly longer but also would have spread the fire faster. Would have been a trade off, but probably beneficial at the time.

 

[Paul]

Nah, the fire at that point hadn't become totally oxygen limited, but even if it was approaching that stage, you have to have a pretty tightly sealed compartment to risk a backdraft, along with cessation of combustion. Venting horizontally at that point would have probably made conditions tenable slightly longer but also would have spread the fire faster. Would have been a trade off, but probably beneficial at the time.

Innerestink....

The other problem with the plate glass windows is that they don't break like in the movies. That is some thick glass, and even if they were broken, they wouldn't be a viable egress as the remaining glass shards in the sill could be potentially lethal, especially with a panicked crowd behind you.