Help with adjusting bindings

[sunradave]

Got the wife new boots. However, these boot a just a bit longer then her orginals ones. So an adjustment is in order. I assume to accomidate the new length all one needs to do is dial in or out with a screwdriver on the back (heel step in) section of the binding. Can anyone confirm this.

thanks
Dave

 

[riverc0il]

that would adjust the DIN which is probably not the best method of compensating for a different size boot. adjusting the DIN will effect when the ski would release (or not release) when needed (or not needed). in other words, too tight the ski doesn't pop off during a nasty fall or to low and the ski will be popping off during regular skiing when you least need a release.

how much longer are they? often times close boot lengths can fit into the same binding without moving them. best idea would be to take the boots and skis to a professional and ask them their advide. a remount may be in order if the boot sizes were very different.

 

[DBarnes727]

Sunradave,
You can do this, if there are two(2) screws on the back of the binding.
One is for the Din, which I would not mess with. The other will in fact adjust the heel piece fore and aft. My Marker bindings have the two screws. However, my Salomons have a screw(din setting) and a lever that you pry up to slide the heelpiece.

The only disadvantage to this adjustment is that the centerline of the new boots will no longer be on the recommended boot mount line of the ski. (The boots will be a little more rearward of the ski manufacturer's recommended mounting point) I would assume this is not a huge deal, and she probably won't even notice the difference.
My parents would adjust the bindings this way when I was young, and they still do for my younger brother and sister.

 

[beswift]

Binding Adjustments

If you want to be covered by your binding Mfg.'s insurer for liability, you should bring the gear to a shop so that a Certified Binding Tech does the adjustments. I'm no longer certified, but I do adjust my own bindings. I drop the release tension down to nothing in the spring and bring it back to the proper DIN in the fall. (DIN by the way stands for Deutche Industrial Normen and doesn't mean binding tension or anything product specific). Sometimes I confuse the spring from the boot size screw and have to re-allign both. This happens in spite of the fact that I have been certified for all the bindings I use. If a person recommends any change in your binding settings either for boot size or spring tension, he is liable in the case of injury. In other words the last poster is liable in case of injury and can be successfully sued for it in a court of law. If a binding is not adjusted by a currently certified technition, you can not claim a binding failure in the case of injury. That's the law, I didn't write it, but you should be aware of it.

 

[powers]

I have to agree with beswift. I've wrenched on skis full time for 13 years and have seen shops take the big dirt nap from binding lawsuits. Many newer binding systems have boot to ski adjustments that work with performing enhancement features and can be thron off if you don't know what you are doing. I've also had brand new binding blow up on the testing bench. You can't think of bindings as the things that keep your boots on your skis. They are safety equipement and need to be inspected and adjusted once a year (at the beginning) and every 12 skier days of that season. Follow the manufacturers instructions to a T. There is a reason for mechanics to be certified and that is to provide the consumer with the safest equipement possible, dictated by what the manufacture sets as a standard. If you step out of that standard, you are liable. If the shop does not follow the proceedures set by the manufacturer, they are liable. If it is proven that the consumer has followed the instructions given to them by the shop and the shop has fullfilled all requirements set by the manu., then the manufacturer is liable. If you want to work on your own bindings then you should get the binding information from your local authorized dealer.
I don't work full time on skis anymore but I still follow the manu. recommendations and test my own skis regularly. I don't want this to sound like a sermon, I just want to see people get info they can use.

That being said....

I,__your name here_______, hold the above poster harmless to any information that might cause me harm or inflame me to post snippy or flippant responses. :wink:

 

[thetrailboss]

Welcome, sunradave.

As you will find, people in here are quite helpful and informative.

With regards to your question, I support what has been said here, and that is take them to a shop.

Enjoy the snow!

 

[teachski]

I'd suggest going to a certified shop for this. There may be some other adjustments that need to be made also, it may not be just moving the heel, them may be needed adjustments in the toe area as well.

 

[bvibert]

It should only cost you about $20 to have the bindings re-adjusted and torque tested at a shop. The shop you bought the boots from may even do it for free. Its a good idea to get your bindings checked out once a year anyway...

 

[beswift]

Testing Bindings

powers, I'm curious, how do you test your skiis at home? Do you own a torque tester? I haven't worked on a binding in a shop for many years, but when I did I didn't fully agree with Mfg.'s recommended DIN settings. I'll relate one very rare case which was presented me. An 86 year old man came into my shop once. I forget his name and since he would prabably be 100 years old now, I assume he is dead. He was wearing a hat with a Participant's pin for the 1936 Olympics. He told me that he had bought a new pair of skiis with bindings, but they had set the bindings too loose for him. He was coming out of them, and this was dangerous for a man his age. He asked me to tighten them against the recommended settings. I checked with the owner of the shop and another mechanic (both of whom knew him by reputation and personally). They backed me up on the adjustment. In a way, we had a case for age discrimination. The man was an excellent skier still at his age. The recommended settings do tend to be on the conservative side.

 

[powers]

I still put in some time at the shop I used to work at full time but to answer your other question yes, I use a torque tester to measure release values. Our shop uses a Winterstiger automated testing machine to test all the consumers bindings now. It has a much higher repeatability than a beam type manual torque tester but you don't have the same feel for the binding release. After a while you can tell when a binding is going to self-destruct on the bench and test for failure by cranking the binding to the max setting and releasing it. The values that manufacturers use are based on the relative strength of the knee joint. After age 50 the "average" American dosen't have an as strong knee as someone younger. In Europe, release setting are based on the width of the tibial head as well to correct the release value. From what I've been told, Nazi doctors would take prisoners and break their joints in order to mesure the stength of the human body, ( funny, they didn't treat them like humans ) and this information, although improperly gotten, was used to set up the first binding charts. It sounds plausable but I think it needs to be researched.
If a customer want a different setting than what the chart recommends, there is a form that can be signed that "releases" the shop from liability. More recently, there is a +3 and -1 rating that a customer can select to extend the range of possible setttings. Also, if you got new boots that the sole was long enough to bump you up one size code, your setting could drop as much as 2, even if everything else was the same. Has to do with effective leverage, blah , blah, blah,.... I could go on but I'll leave it here. Hope I answered your question.

 

[DBarnes727]

Re: Binding Adjustments

In other words the last poster is liable in case of injury and can be successfully sued for it in a court of law.

Geez buddy, you a lawyer?
Guess we have to have disclaimers on the ends of our posts these days.

In regards to my prior post, I cannot recommend adjusting bindings yourself, take them to a shop.

Happy? :roll:

 

[sunradave]

Thanks for the advise. Will spend the 25 bucks and have a ski shop do the adjustment.

thanks again

 

[beswift]

Oh, Ya?

DBarnes, that kind of a smug, wiseguy attitude I find rather reflective of a lack of intelligence. Don't take it personally, though. :lol: Glad to see that the original inquirer has used the info here to make his decision.

 

[catskills]

Got the wife new boots. However, these boot a just a bit longer then her orginals ones. So an adjustment is in order. I assume to accomidate the new length all one needs to do is dial in or out with a screwdriver on the back (heel step in) section of the binding. Can anyone confirm this.

thanks
Dave

Dave a few words of advice. GO TO A SKI SHOP !!!!!! Your wife's safety is worth every penny. In fact everyone should have their skis adjusted by a ski shop at the beginning of each ski season.

No I don't work in a ski shop and do not own a ski shop. Many years ago I broke my Fibula and Tibia because I adjusted my own bindings, I was young, and had no clue what I was doing. Plane and simple I made a big mistake.

 

[oneotwoandcounting]

Hi sunradave, beswift, and forum members,

I will start with a disclaimer: This technique is not recommended.

That said here’s the technique the NYSEF Training Center use to use on the kids 15 to 20 years ago when my daughter was into racing. They used it on the kids when they did something that was way out of line. They called it their binding check. They would have the kid snap into their bindings. Than pick them up and invert them, leaving them hanging from their skis. If they didn’t release from their bindings they were considered adjusted correctly.

This technique could also cost you your marriage and is another reason for the disclaimer.

I know binding manufactures reduce DIN settings (usually my 1.5) after a person turns fifty. This is because as a person ages they lose bone mass. If someone is active and practices progressive resistance exercises (i.e. lift weights or its equivalent) the bone mass loss is slowed dramatically. I am over fifty (I tell everyone I am 39 but no one believes me) and still set my bindings where the below fifty crowd puts them. Racers are a whole other story and crank up their DIN settings to keep their skis on while generating race forces. This is also not recommended for recreational skiers.

Injuries cost more than adjustments so take them to a ski shop and have them adjusted. I have had problems with my bindings at Whiteface and didn’t have my tools with me. I went to the mountain ski shop and they adjusted them for nothing. You may find the same at your local shop.

 

[wormly81]

DIN settings

After reading this post I did a little research and found a DIN chart that I found rather interesting... Enjoy

http://www.terrymorse.com/ski/din.html

Jeff

 

[beswift]

Setting bindings

They specify the Marker 51 SC binding there. Din charts are only relevant to specific bindings. A lot also depends on the power of your spring. You definitely want to keep your setting in the mid-range of the binding's spring. However, I have skied sucessfully with bindings set at the limit of the spring. Unfortunately, this will fatigue the metal and won't yield an accurate setting for very long. It's o.k. if the binding is relatively new, but it will be suspect if it has aged significantly. Backing off your settings to zero in the off season will also prevent metal fatigue in the springs. I ski with 14 year old racing bindings both of which have seen little deterioration. If you take a binding with a din range of 1-14 and set it for 7-8, it will last longer than one with a range to 10 at the same settings. This calls to mind an interesting case. The Solomon 444 was an excellent step-in binding even by today's standards. However, it had two rollers which wore. If the wear was excessive, the company would not indemnify it. It is my bet that they will still indemnify a good pair. I believe this was the most popular binding ever sold. I don't see too many of them any more, but I always check the rollers when I do. Yard sales, junk stores, ect.