Hey Vail, Please Don't Buy Smugglers Notch Resort (or, Houston, We Have A Stalker)

[thetrailboss]

There's lots of lodging at Smuggs, more than people realize due to the fact that the mountain buildout/planning hides it quite well. This would be very appealing to Vail given Stowe lacks it.

Some of the newer buildings higher up the Morse side named for birds are quite nice & already "Vail worthy", so to speak. Most of the older buildings at the bottom, for example, Hakone, Nordland, Birches, etc.. are in bad shape, and would need much work before the new money at Vail would ever consider staying there, but it's all cosmetic & could be "Vailed up" quite quickly. New carpeting, stainless steel appliances, replace the 1970s wood paneling with sheetrock & white paint, replace 1980s Formica with granite counter-tops etc... Wouldn't take much really.

But, again, it is all at the wrong side of the Notch for most folks.

Then again, the opportunity is there for them to have a captive audience and build up their own restaurants, shops, etc. to generate revenue. Anyone who skis at Vail's resorts knows that they make their money on these "other" services.

 

[DoublePlanker]

Given the state of the ski industry these days, is there another buyer for Smuggs? Is the ski area feasible going forward given aging infrastructure? Who will spend the capital required in the future + acquisition cost?

Vail could be a better option than eventual nelsap.

Vail could build a tunnel interconnect from Stowe. Or a funicular + tunnel?

 

[raisingarizona]

More work would be needed than that.

It doesn’t matter who owns it, that work is going to have to happen at some point anyways. A few people might like the place as it is but I doubt there’s enough of them to keep paying the bills. I don’t know what a day ticket cocts at Smuggs but I’m not a big fan of paying walk up prices to sit on a cold and slow chairlift all day limiting my time actually skiing.

Those of you on here that like Smuggs as it is now, how many days did you ski there last season?

 

[BenedictGomez]

Vail could be a better option than eventual nelsap.

NELSAP? Smuggs is in no danger of going NELSAP with or without acquisition. The place makes money.

Those of you on here that like Smuggs as it is now, how many days did you ski there last season?

More than you by the sound of it. Not sure where this, "Smuggs isnt financially stable" meme is coming from, but I see no indication it's remotely true. The place is relatively busy in summer too.

 

[raisingarizona]

NELSAP? Smuggs is in no danger of going NELSAP with or without acquisition. The place makes money.



More than you by the sound of it. Not sure where this, "Smuggs isnt financially stable" meme is coming from, but I see no indication it's remotely true. The place is relatively busy in summer too.

I don’t ski in the east anymore. Heck, I haven’t skied in Vermont or anywhere out east since 1993. Is it financially stable enough to eventually rebuild the infrastructure that’s getting closer to the end of its life expectancie? But seriously, how many days?

Holy crap, I just realized it’s been 25 years since moving out west to be a ski bum. The wheel in the sky keeps on turning I guess.

 

[cdskier]

NELSAP? Smuggs is in no danger of going NELSAP with or without acquisition. The place makes money.



More than you by the sound of it. Not sure where this, "Smuggs isnt financially stable" meme is coming from, but I see no indication it's remotely true. The place is relatively busy in summer too.

My cousin in Maryland has a timeshare at Smuggs that he uses in the summer for a couple weeks and always says it is quite busy. They do have a lot of all-season activities and I could easily see them turning a profit non-winter months as well. I would agree there's no indication of any financial concerns. Does that mean they have enough to replace core infrastructure when needed though? Unless someone has access to their books we simply don't know. They've been a successful business for years, so I would like to think they have some sort of long range capital improvement plan. It is highly unlikely they think their current lifts would never need to be replaced (or even that they're just planning for it to be the next guy's problem). The owner may be old, but would be really want his legacy to be that he left a mess for the future resulting in the resort failing? I can't speak for him, but I know I wouldn't want that to happen if I was the owner.

 

[rtjcbrown]

But, again, it is all at the wrong side of the Notch for most folks.

Then again, the opportunity is there for them to have a captive audience and build up their own restaurants, shops, etc. to generate revenue. Anyone who skis at Vail's resorts knows that they make their money on the "other" services.

While I agree that Smuggs is on the wrong side of the Notch as things are today, that is if you are looking at it for a weekend trip. If Vail buys Smuggs and connects it to Stowe, it creates a mega-resort unlike anything in the northeast. This makes it a destination worthy of a week long vacation, which makes the extra drive time seem not so bad. They could control the lodging and dining, and make the Smuggs side more geared towards the weekly skier, and Stowe becomes the weekend/day trip side.

 

[tumbler]

Most summer operations at ski areas are to lessen the losses, they don't make money in the summer. I would also be skeptical that they are turning a hefty yearly profit. From a skier perspective what gives you the inclination that they are making money? I admit I have not been to Smuggs in about 20 years but I have not heard of any large capital improvements there like many other areas (Jay & Burke excluded) have been undertaking. Usually reinvesting is a sign of profit. Unless their plan is to sell...

 

[BenedictGomez]

I don’t ski in the east anymore. Heck, I haven’t skied in Vermont or anywhere out east since 1993. Is it financially stable enough to eventually rebuild the infrastructure that’s getting closer to the end of its life expectancie? But seriously, how many days?

I imagine they have enough money to replace a lift should one need replacing, which doesn't seem to be the case at the moment. It's not a situation like Magic Mountain where they cant run the Black Chair (or can only run it with every other seat) so nothing is dire yet. I probably ski there anywhere from 5 to 8 days per season, though I fail to see how/why this matters.

My cousin in Maryland has a timeshare at Smuggs that he uses in the summer for a couple weeks and always says it is quite busy.

Out of curiosity, what happens to timeshare owners on these changes in ownership that we've been seeing recently, does the contract simply revert to new ownership and nothing changes?

 

[ThinkSnow]

This makes it a destination worthy of a week long vacation, which makes the extra drive time seem not so bad.

....common theme <sigh>

 

[machski]

Most summer operations at ski areas are to lessen the losses, they don't make money in the summer. I would also be skeptical that they are turning a hefty yearly profit. From a skier perspective what gives you the inclination that they are making money? I admit I have not been to Smuggs in about 20 years but I have not heard of any large capital improvements there like many other areas (Jay & Burke excluded) have been undertaking. Usually reinvesting is a sign of profit. Unless their plan is to sell...

They have not made the big splashes on hill, but they have been making improvements to the village offerings and other activities. As to summer operations, they may have a decent draw and potential profit. I know they have the nationaldisk golf championships this year (didn't realize they have two complete 18 hole disk courses that are apparently highly ranked in the country for those).

Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[thetrailboss]

Given the state of the ski industry these days, is there another buyer for Smuggs? Is the ski area feasible going forward given aging infrastructure? Who will spend the capital required in the future + acquisition cost?

Vail could be a better option than eventual nelsap.

Vail could build a tunnel interconnect from Stowe. Or a funicular + tunnel?

NELSAP? No.

A tunnel and funicular? You're joking, right?

 

[Ol Dirty Noodle]

I do a week at smugg’s every year, I don’t get bored and every time I leave I start looking at real estate and toying with the idea of moving my outfit to VT. The vibe is awesome, skiing’s great, I personally love the accommodations/property, it’s also very reasonable for the package I usually get; 5 nights with lift tix for 2 people almost always under $800. I really hope they don’t sell anytime soon.

 

[VTKilarney]

Smuggs has no problem filling up their lodging. In that regard, I don’t think that it matters what side of the notch it’s on.

 

[Scruffy]

Some of you guys bitch when your favorite resorts goes Mega Corp., and here we have a financially healthy, functioning privately owned ski resort that has great terrain and we have some wishing Vail would buy it :lol:

I don't think Smugs is in any danger of closing it's doors anytime soon, but if you're at all concerned, go there and support them. Liberty Bank renewed their business loans with Smugss recently - 38M in 2015 and 22.5M in 2017, for receivables loans and inventory loans. this is most likely for their real estate business.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

i dont think anyone in here "wishes" that vail buys it. we just see it as something of an inevitable.

 

[Quietman]

Seems to me that they are stable because they have a very loyal customer base and they haven't invested in major on hill improvements on a yearly basis like most other "resorts" do. Gets yearly raves as the best family resort, and has some spectacular terrain, but they seem to bank the profits every year without re-investing in the infrastructure. Good for them if this model continues to work!

 

[DoublePlanker]

NELSAP? No.

A tunnel and funicular? You're joking, right?

tunnel + magic carpet like the bird???

 

[BenedictGomez]

tunnel + magic carpet like the bird???

Snowbird's tunnel/carpet cost almost $1M, and is VERY short. A Stowe/Smuggs tunnel would be MUCH longer.

I have no idea how much that significant extra length would translate into dollars, but I think it would be a lot, and those dollars would probably be more efficiently & wisely be placed into the "correct" Vermont politician's pockets.

 

[raisingarizona]

Snowbird's tunnel/carpet cost almost $1M, and is VERY short. A Stowe/Smuggs tunnel would be MUCH longer.

I have no idea how much that significant extra length would translate into dollars, but I think it would be a lot, and those dollars would probably be more efficiently & wisely be placed into the "correct" Vermont politician's pockets.

You could probably just put in a movable handle tow connecting Spruce to Sterling and pull it out every spring.