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Killington: What was it? What Does POWDR Want it to Be? You?

thetrailboss

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So here is a discussion topic: Killington's identity. What WAS it during its height in the SKI years? What do you think POWDR wants it to be? What do YOU THINK it should be?

From what I have read, under SKI Killington was the King of Superlatives--longest season, most terrain, most innovations, most promotions, largest snowmaking system, most skiers and riders, best operations, best party scene, etc. One of the things that it was not was "most expensive." From what I have seen and heard, Pres was all about delivering skiing to as many people as he could, and getting as many hooked as he could. It was not about being exclusive. They ran midweek promotions and had the GLM skis. Their business was the ski business--when the lifts turned, they made money. Period. That was what they wanted. They were also not into real estate.

POWDR seems to want to get back to making Killington "what it was," or what they conceived it to be. Their pitch seems to be a narrower market: the same market that Okemo, Loon, Bretton Woods, and maybe even Stowe are pitching to--those who have enough disposable income to buy real estate. POWDR wants to do more with less--more revenue with less skiers and riders because in their book people want more room on the slopes and to be honest they can save money and infrastructure by having to host fewer skiers. They want to rebrand Killington to "the best," not necessarily "the beast."

I think that the SKI vision was what built Killington and what most people still associate with Killington. It took years for Killington to break down to what it was right before POWDR bought it. It really corroded. Killington, if it does not have the longest season, or the most snowmaking, or the most open terrain, or the most innovation in the industry is just another ski area. Specifically, it is a ski area that is not a "ski resort" because it has no village. It is an area that has wide groomers that one can find elsewhere. Killington was intended to be a ski area and not necessarily a resort, in the modern sense. Pres spent more energy and money on skiing infrastructure rather than building parking garages, shopping plazas, or fancy restaurants. His focal point was the sport and he made it work as a business. He built it, they came. Now I am not so sure....
 

RootDKJ

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SpinmasterK

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So here is a discussion topic: Killington's identity. What WAS it during its height in the SKI years? What do you think POWDR wants it to be? What do YOU THINK it should be?

From what I have read, under SKI Killington was the King of Superlatives--longest season, most terrain, most innovations, most promotions, largest snowmaking system, most skiers and riders, best operations, best party scene, etc. One of the things that it was not was "most expensive." From what I have seen and heard, Pres was all about delivering skiing to as many people as he could, and getting as many hooked as he could. It was not about being exclusive. They ran midweek promotions and had the GLM skis. Their business was the ski business--when the lifts turned, they made money. Period. That was what they wanted. They were also not into real estate.

POWDR seems to want to get back to making Killington "what it was," or what they conceived it to be. Their pitch seems to be a narrower market: the same market that Okemo, Loon, Bretton Woods, and maybe even Stowe are pitching to--those who have enough disposable income to buy real estate. POWDR wants to do more with less--more revenue with less skiers and riders because in their book people want more room on the slopes and to be honest they can save money and infrastructure by having to host fewer skiers. They want to rebrand Killington to "the best," not necessarily "the beast."

I think that the SKI vision was what built Killington and what most people still associate with Killington. It took years for Killington to break down to what it was right before POWDR bought it. It really corroded. Killington, if it does not have the longest season, or the most snowmaking, or the most open terrain, or the most innovation in the industry is just another ski area. Specifically, it is a ski area that is not a "ski resort" because it has no village. It is an area that has wide groomers that one can find elsewhere. Killington was intended to be a ski area and not necessarily a resort, in the modern sense. Pres spent more energy and money on skiing infrastructure rather than building parking garages, shopping plazas, or fancy restaurants. His focal point was the sport and he made it work as a business. He built it, they came. Now I am not so sure....


I look forward to seeing what folks think about Killington, what it was, what it is and what they feel the future holds. I have been at Killington for almost five years and have seen quite a few changes. However, I am really excited about the direction that we - Killington/Pico Ski Resort Partners - are taking heading into the 2009-10 season, including a commitment to a longer season by opening as early as possible. More to follow ...
 

highpeaksdrifter

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When I was younger I use to love the place, it was hugh, great terrain, night life, lodging. With Hunter as my home base I was used to crowds so that didn't bother me at the time. As I ventured north of Rutland I realized there where better choices for me.

I'm not quite sure why people love to hate it. It seems as though people who are K loyalist like to put it down. For sure they love to talk about it. Even with there own Kzone to bitch and complain on they still feel the need to branch out to other ski forums to bitch and complain there.
 

SkiDork

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When I was younger I use to love the place, it was hugh, great terrain, night life, lodging. With Hunter as my home base I was used to crowds so that didn't bother me at the time. As I ventured north of Rutland I realized there where better choices for me.

I'm not quite sure why people love to hate it. It seems as though people who are K loyalist like to put it down. For sure they love to talk about it. Even with there own Kzone to bitch and complain on they still feel the need to branch out to other ski forums to bitch and complain there.

Have you read about all the negative stuff POWDR has done?
 

thetrailboss

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Closing on a Saturday is pretty lame as well.

I didn't like this either. It sent the wrong message to the skiers (customer). The issue was that the payroll week started and ended on a Saturday, and that having folks work on a Sunday would screw it up. Now in the Pres Smith days, they'd figure something out to get around that. Instead, the unintended message that was sent was, "well, our internal needs are more important than opening and delivering the product to the consumer."
 

Highway Star

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I look forward to seeing what folks think about Killington, what it was, what it is and what they feel the future holds. I have been at Killington for almost five years and have seen quite a few changes. However, I am really excited about the direction that we - Killington/Pico Ski Resort Partners - are taking heading into the 2009-10 season, including a commitment to a longer season by opening as early as possible. More to follow ...

Good to hear, but is there a new strategy that will allow this goal to be achived? With the K-1 top to bottom opening, we've seen several years where weather didn't allow an opening until mid-late November. In a worst case senario, opening could be delayed past the Thanksgiving holiday. Any real changes for this year?
 

JerseyJoey

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When I was younger I use to love the place, it was hugh, great terrain, night life, lodging. With Hunter as my home base I was used to crowds so that didn't bother me at the time. As I ventured north of Rutland I realized there where better choices for me.

I'm not quite sure why people love to hate it. It seems as though people who are K loyalist like to put it down. For sure they love to talk about it. Even with there own Kzone to bitch and complain on they still feel the need to branch out to other ski forums to bitch and complain there.

Nobody was bitching 5 years ago, or 15 years ago, or even 50 years ago for that matter. Killington was the best, the biggest, the longest, the craziest, the partiest, etc....

They are bitching now because all of that has been taken away in the name of trying to make a few extra bucks.

We're not bitching at Killington. We're bitching at Powdr and Nyberg.
 

thetrailboss

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Good to hear, but is there a new strategy that will allow this goal to be achived? With the K-1 top to bottom opening, we've seen several years where weather didn't allow an opening until mid-late November. In a worst case senario, opening could be delayed past the Thanksgiving holiday. Any real changes for this year?

The Highway Star Poma/Surface Lift up Upper Cascade to the top of K-1 is not in operation at this time, if that is what you are getting at.
 

Bubbartzky

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I didn't like this either. It sent the wrong message to the skiers (customer). The issue was that the payroll week started and ended on a Saturday, and that having folks work on a Sunday would screw it up. Now in the Pres Smith days, they'd figure something out to get around that. Instead, the unintended message that was sent was, "well, our internal needs are more important than opening and delivering the product to the consumer."

And that right there is the problem. This is a company run by financial people, folks who generally run by the numbers not recognizing the customer side of the decision. Short term numbers are more important than long term impact. "Brand" is not a word in the vocabulary. It appears to be an inwardly looking, inwardly driven organization. To be fair, they're learning, but they've caused themselves a lot of problems that will take quite a while to overcome.

Now, what should Killington be? It should return to what it was before the financial disaster of the 10 years or so leading up to Powdr's acquisition. It has to return to being all about superlatives. It has to commit to blowing enough snow to remain open until the Memorial Day weekend by putting the Triathlon back on its schedule. It has to re-create the brand it owned for 40 years. It has to be about skiing first, and it has to be FOR the skier first and foremost. Without being about superlatives, it's just another New England ski area, albeit bigger, but it will be competing on everyone else's turf, and playing on someone else's field is never a great idea.
 

Highway Star

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The Highway Star Poma/Surface Lift up Upper Cascade to the top of K-1 is not in operation at this time, if that is what you are getting at.

What they need is a triple on middle-upper Downdraft, or a midstation on the K-1....that would rule.
 
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