Local Press: Cannon to Make a Profit This Season and Plans its Future

[thetrailboss]

The Caledonian Record is reporting that Cannon will make a profit off of its ski operations for this season to the tune of $250-350,000. The big news is not just the profit, but the plans for improvements next season and for the long term plans for Mittersill, which now have more solid plans (money budgeted for a lodge, parking lot, and a new lift). The mountain wants to keep Mitty as a "Mad River Glenesque" experience.

Comments?

 

[bobbutts]

I'm surprised they aren't going for a High speed chair and snowmaking runs over there. This isn't the Green Mt. spine.. much less snow at Cannon.
It is refreshing to see this type of expansion proposed instead of typical mcskiing/condo going on at other places. Hopefully it works out.

 

[MikeTrainor]

This link has more information. Looks like they plan a fixed grip double and no grooming. Might be good for their market and could attract more skiers. However if they are going through the effort of putting in a lift the a surface lift over there might be a good addition. As another poster pointed out in regard to snow making it is not northern Vermont and a lift will bring increased traffic over there. I am no expert on Mittersill so hopefully others will chime in.

http://www.unionleader.com/article....rticleId=bd4a526a-ef95-4743-8bde-67ef9406c296

 

[ga2ski]

Good for JD. I sure miss him at Sunday River, but glad to hear that his new mountain is doing well.

 

[riverc0il]

The move would almost double terrain and return use to trails that have been closed to lift access for almost 30 years.

Adding Mittersill to Cannon's lift serviced trail system WILL NOT double terrain! This is the second time that claim has been made in print and it is simply not true, no way no how. Mittersill does not have the vertical nor the acreage of the current ski area, not even by a third I would estimate.

In the near term, DeVivo said, Mittersill might see a fixed-grip double chair on the same pathway as the old lift there, virtually no snowmaking and limited grooming to keep Mittersill "a very natural experience," for which he believes there is a market.

I can appreciate the fixed grip double and "virtually no snowmaking". Perhaps just on Barron's would be ridiculously nice and that Run can have the only grooming over there too. This is about the best compromise that could possibly be made to those that love the experience over there as it is. Just brush out the trails and clean up the over growth (dare I ask for regen areas to regrow trails on the open trails?) and keep widening to a minimum. Cannon is not a high natural snow total area but with better brushing, Mittersill could be the first "natural" snow terrain to open at Cannon regularly.

His vision does not immediately call for a base lodge at Mittersill, but connecting shuttle service.

No surprise about the lack of a base lodge. Not sure why they would need a shuttle service as folks can just take the lift up and ski back down to the Peabody Slopes. They already run a shuttle service to the over flow parking lots on busy weekends any ways, so certainly no major increase in expenses.

DeVivo said a bountiful natural snowfall, new grooming equipment, a changed philosophy and return visitors have made the difference.

Emphasis on the natural snowfall with Cannon dinging in the second highest NH snowfall in its ski area history this season. Nothing brings people out like natural snow and I learned during mid-year when Cannon was ringing in a foot, there was no reason to drive to NoVT which had several times missed snows that hit NH which is pretty rare. I would also add the commitment to snow making in there as well. But if they think a one season big bang in revenue during the second snowiest season on record is a trend... I would wait another season or two before planning on spending all the extra cash.

This certainly puts the "Cannon should be leased because it loses money" on the defensive for this season. I hope they keep it up, but it is too early to tell if this will be a trend or not.

 

[deadheadskier]

Emphasis on the natural snowfall with Cannon dinging in the second highest NH snowfall in its ski area history this season.

Seriously?

Wow, I knew it was a good year for New Hampshire and got to experience some of it at Wildcat and Black. Didn't realize it was THAT good.

That just fortifies what someone else said about Cannon not being on the Green Mountain Ridge. As good as it was in NH this season, it pretty much seemed like what an average year in Northen Vemont is regarding natural snowfall.

I've always felt that this was a bummer. Don't get me wrong, Northern VT has soom serious mountains, but they don't compare to the Whites or Adirondacks in terms of physical terrain. If only these two ranges got the snow that northern Vt does.....

 

[ckofer]

My vote is for a t-bar or maybe a single chair to service Mittersill. There is something to be said about celebrating the history of skiing and this would be the place to do it. As far as I see it, the thing that makes Mittersill nice is the relatively low traffic.

I don't know if it's possible, but if snowmaking/grooming efforts could help out with the mountain's icy reputation without overly flattening the trails, that would be money well-spent.

 

[riverc0il]

One of the big problems I see with lifts at Mittersill, such as ckofer's plan, is that this access is already there for a short hike. People already head over there. Are two lifts ever going to recoup their own cost, let alone long term profit and revenue generation, in the form of additional skiers and people skiing Mittersill (assuming it is kept natural) than are already skiing over there already? Doubtful. Transfer lifts would not be needed because there is already access. The original Stage 3 plans for the Cannon improvement called for a lift from the base of Mittersill to Tuckerbrook similar to ckofer line. It makes good financial sense that they don't seem to be pushing for that lift any more but rather just a single double to service the entire area. People can get back to Cannon proper via Barron's which would be the best choice for snow making and grooming. Though I think if they are going to expand over there, they are missing a huge opportunity to expand the beginner terrain by not having a short lift to access the open slopes.

 

[ckofer]

To tell you the truth, I'd rather not see any lifts to that area. I'm not sure how the legalities of rescues work, but the top lift would benefit getting patrollers over there if needed. The bottom lift in my pic is just a convenience item for them.

If they go ahead and open it all, the anticipation of more services from the general public would be anticipated too. They have already backed off in this department and probably that is part of the contribution to the improved bottom line (not tram Mon/Fri, minimal services at Tram station).

The big business approach would be to make a Mittersill a great intermediate experience with availablity of more difficult stuff at Cannon. That would mean a detachable lift from the Mittersill base to its peak and a serious investment in snowmaking, grooming, and fancy-shmancy cafeterias.

 

[SIKSKIER]

By the way,I talked with the MM John DeVivo on Saturday and the Mt did have a profitable year.First time talking with him and was impressed.We discussed the land swap among other things.I was also talking with a few people on the board of the landswap commitee who were meeting last Friday and was very suprized to here that a surface lift was proposed for the saddle.Totally against that idea.The mountains are already connected without running a lift to the top of the saddle.I can't imagine the traffic going down the chute to get to the top of Mittersill.That trail could not handle it and because it sits on a ridge there really is no room for adding trails(Although it could be widened).There is also a lot of terrain that goes the "wrong" way down Tuckerbrook(backside) that which would have some real bozos ending 3 miles away from the lifts.There are a lot of secret stashes that would get lower level skiers in trouble of that trail also.As Riv has stated there is only a need for one lift to serve all the terrain but I disagree about the need for more access to beginer terrain at Mittersill with what has already been added with the Tuckerbrook,Brookside,and Eagle cliffs lifts.By the way,the plan calls for snowmaking which Mittersill was one of the first to install in NE.Nice picture of snowmaking in progress in the summit lodge from the 60's

 

[snowmonster]

Good for Cannon. I just hope they don't attribute it to that "Cannonista" marketing line.

 

[thetrailboss]

A follow up story that appeared in today's Caledonian Record.

Some interesting quotes:

"[DeVivo] lucked out with the snow," Alden said, referring to this winter's record snowfall, "but we have to give him credit for what he has brought - goals, expectations and drive."

And:

Not all, however, are upbeat.

"If Cannon is finishing in the black, they're not finishing by very much," said Kevin Johnson, owner of the Gale River Motel in Franconia. "Other ski areas are probably going to be millions of dollars in the black. If this had been a less than stellar season, Cannon would've lost money."

Johnson said his sales of Cannon ski passes this year did not increase over last year's, and that rentals of his motel rooms stayed the same as well. Johnson, moreover, doesn't believe the state has any money to put into Mittersill.

"[Cannon is] looking at drawing it out for four or five years because they don't have the capital to maximize the ski area," said Johnson. "Their spin is they want to keep it natural. But the audience for that is very small. If that's their target audience, the mountain will lose money."

Johnson said other ski areas, such as Gunstock Ski Area & Resort, Mount Sunapee and Loon Mountain Resort, have put millions of dollars into capital improvements that "make them marketable and bring in the business.

"If you look at the dozen top ski areas in the state," he said, "Cannon ranks last and is dying a slow death."

Johnson said the region suffers in the winter because Cannon isn't a marketable ski area.

This last guy seems a bit out there IMHO. Thoughts?

 

[AdironRider]

Well I didnt experience the winter back east this season, but I just cant see that many more people coming up to the notch and bypassing, Sunapee, Loon, Waterville, and Gunstock. All these hills have exits right off 93 on the way up, have better amenities, and more commitment to marketing/snowmaking/etc.

 

[snowmonster]

Actually, what they need to stress is how close they really are to the metro Boston area. Loon gets a terrific number of people on the weekends and that's because of its proximity and accesibility from Boston. However, both Cannon and Loon are just off 93 (Cannon is actually on 93). Cannon is about 20 minutes up the road from Loon and I can imagine them siphoning off some of the crowds at Loon with the promise of less crowding and more interesting terrain.

 

[riverc0il]

This last guy seems a bit out there IMHO. Thoughts?

Sounds out there to me. If this guy did not see increased guests in his hotel this winter, of all winters, then perhaps he should be looking into his own business operations instead of blaming Cannon. I guess we should make Cannon just like every other mountain so this guy can maybe get a few additional guests. Whatev.

Has there actually been studies done to verify how many extra skiers Cannon might potentially gain (or loose, don't forget Cannon could theoretically lose its core base with too many unpopular changes) with Mittersill in any of its various states? How about studies on local impact? Is this all conjecture? Non-biased studies independently funded, not funded through local chamber of commerce or the state with obvious biases? Personally, my opinion is I just don't see the Mittersill expansion being the supposed wind fall that some Franconia business people see it as being. But when business is bad, it is always easier to blame the local environment than take ownership and step up to the innovation plate.

 

[riverc0il]

Actually, what they need to stress is how close they really are to the metro Boston area. Loon gets a terrific number of people on the weekends and that's because of its proximity and accesibility from Boston. However, both Cannon and Loon are just off 93 (Cannon is actually on 93). Cannon is about 20 minutes up the road from Loon and I can imagine them siphoning off some of the crowds at Loon with the promise of less crowding and more interesting terrain.

Funny thing is, when you account for Lincoln traffic and the lights, Cannon is almost the same distance as Loon from the Lincoln exit. I think people are aware of the proximity, Cannon does not have the stigma that, say, Burke has to deal with. People skiing Loon instead of Cannon are after a different experience. No amount of snow making and grooming and terrain addition will ever make Cannon able to complete with a country club ski area.

 

[jack97]

This last guy seems a bit out there IMHO. Thoughts?

Hmm... seems to have missed this. Back a year or two ago, some local business owners wanted to lease operation to a private company via the sunapee model.

Here's the link to the pros
http://www.gofranconia.com/commentspro.html

Conversely, the nays
http://www.gofranconia.com/commentscon.html


Here's the report generated by a commission for improvements, my quick read is that they recommended a gm with more authority on daily operation and personnel decisions. What I hear is that DeVivo is doing that, along with changes to snow operation, he is getting rid of deadweight.
http://www.gofranconia.com/Tuckreport-1.htm

 

[ckofer]

I think the winter Olympics should be held at Cannon some time.

 

[OppositeGeorge]

I think the winter Olympics should be held at Cannon some time.

Not enough vert for an FIS-legal DH run (unless you run it on the Tucker Brook Trail )

 

[ckofer]

Funny thing is, when you account for Lincoln traffic and the lights, Cannon is almost the same distance as Loon from the Lincoln exit. I think people are aware of the proximity, Cannon does not have the stigma that, say, Burke has to deal with. People skiing Loon instead of Cannon are after a different experience. No amount of snow making and grooming and terrain addition will ever make Cannon able to complete with a country club ski area.

I find that some people gravitate to Loon exclusively-even from within NH (believe it or not). Some of them are strong skiers. It may be a comfort-zone thing-reliable (?) conditions on a fairly big mountain? Some seem bewildered at the thought of going to Cannon. You'd swear that they perceive that you're actually going to try to ski right from the spot where the Old Man of The Mountain was. Lots of them have had the ThreeDom passes just to have it become OneDom pass.

Frankly, I get bored at Loon much faster than at Cannon. I want Cannon to be successful but I guess I'm glad the masses head to Loon.

Now if you want to make some money at Cannon, close the Campton and Woodstock liquor stores and put them at the top of the Tram. ;-) That's the New Hampshire way!


btw- This is probably a dumb question, but what is the Burke stigma? I've never been there.