Number of Guns at once

[Puck it]

How many guns can a resort run at once?

I know it is based on water pumping and air compressor capacity, but some resorts have multiple sources. How many can Killington run in the K-1 area off it is water and air supply? What Sunday River?

Need to talk about something involving skiing.

 

[drjeff]

Last year, Mount Snow maxed out one COLD evening just before Pres Weekend with, if I remember it correctly, well over 200 running at once. With the on board air compressors, their fan guns have taken it to the point where the amount of compressed air they can send up the hill is no longer the limiting factor, but it's the amount of water they can send up the hill!

 

[Puck it]

Last year, Mount Snow maxed out one COLD evening just before Pres Weekend with, if I remember it correctly, well over 200 running at once. With the on board air compressors, their fan guns have taken it to the point where the amount of compressed air they can send up the hill is no longer the limiting factor, but it's the amount of water they can send up the hill!

Good point about the fans. It is just the water supply. I was just wondering if they could run guns all the way from the top down.

 

[Sparky]

Jiminy doesn't run the run fan guns, but I have been told they ran 213 air/water guns at the same time. Thats a lot of snowmaking for a mountain that size.

 

[SpinmasterK]

Last season we maxed out at 240 guns running at one time - all Low Energy. Usually, we're running 120-180 depending upong the wetbulb temperature. Colder temps mean more water and less air, and with Low E guns, we can really maximize the system.

 

[Puck it]

Last season we maxed out at 240 guns running at one time - all Low Energy. Usually, we're running 120-180 depending upong the wetbulb temperature. Colder temps mean more water and less air, and with Low E guns, we can really maximize the system.

Was that off of one source of water and air?

 

[WWF-VT]

Sunday River has some good information on snowmaking and factors for system capacity

http://www.sundayriver.com/TheMountain/Snowmaking.html

 

[Puck it]

Sunday River has some good information on snowmaking and factors for system capacity

http://www.sundayriver.com/TheMountain/Snowmaking.html

So, 200 guns at once at SR. It that enough to go T2B.

 

[drjeff]

Good point about the fans. It is just the water supply. I was just wondering if they could run guns all the way from the top down.

I know in talking with their head of mountain ops about this very topic, that for example on their Snowdance trail, which has 18 fan funs lining it. In real cold weather at maximum output, each one of those fan guns is converting basically 100 gallons a minute of water into snow, so they've got to send A LOT of water down that line to endure that the gun closest to the bottom of the hill still has enough water pressure. So in that 1 line alone, they've got around 2000 gallons a minute heading down the mountain

So in all likelyhood how many they could theoretically run at once would depend not only on temp/humidity, but also on if they have all the nozzles engaged, or just some of them, etc, etc, etc. The variables in this day and age with fan guns, low energy (low air) air/water guns, etc about how many guns 1 mountain can run at a time are staggering. But more and more it seems like as more areas go with some fan guns and more and more low-e air water guns are being used that the limiting factor is more likely to be how much water can you send up the hill to flow back down through the system verses how much compressed air you an area can send up the hill.

 

[WJenness]

So, 200 guns at once at SR. It that enough to go T2B.

I would think so.

I remember last year them hammering AmEx and Escapade at the same time amongst other trails, and pretty much top to bottom on both of those...

When they get going, they get going QUICK.

When I was up a couple of weeks ago, they had air/water guns lining Jungle Road.

I expect tonight they'll hammer T2 / Punch to get that back to good, and before long, they'll start with Jungle Road, Ecstasy (Bring Barker Quad Online), Cascades (additional top 2 bottom route) and continue to expand from there.

-w

-w

 

[SpinmasterK]

Was that off of one source of water and air?

Multiple pumps, compressors running at Snowshed, Bear Mtn.

 

[Puck it]

Multiple pumps, compressors running at Snowshed, Bear Mtn.

Those are separate supplies fro air and water. Correct?

 

[millerm277]

Those are separate supplies fro air and water. Correct?

Killington gets water from a number of sources, including from Woodward Reservoir.

To my knowledge, all the air compressors are at the Snowshed Pumphouse, and Bear Mtn.

Water is the ultimate limiting factor for snowmaking in cold weather, but in marginal weather, the amount of air capacity they have tends to be the limiting factor instead.

 

[polski]

If you're Mad River Glen: Both of them.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Last season we maxed out at 240 guns running at one time - all Low Energy. Usually, we're running 120-180 depending upong the wetbulb temperature. Colder temps mean more water and less air, and with Low E guns, we can really maximize the system.

Yeah, but what kind of flow are you putting out each of those Low-E guns???

It's not the number of guns that matters, it's the amount of water you're converting to snow. Regardless of whether it's 10 Hedco World Machines at 750gpm each, or 166 Low E HKD's at 45gpm each, total flow would still be the same at 7500gpm total.

 

[Puck it]

Yeah, but what kind of flow are you putting out each of those Low-E guns???

It's not the number of guns that matters, it's the amount of water you're converting to snow. Regardless of whether it's 10 Hedco World Machines at 750gpm each, or 166 Low E HKD's at 45gpm each, total flow would still be the same at 7500gpm total.

Which creates more snow though? It depends on the size of the ice crystal and packing density. The tighter the packing density of the crystals thena better base. Larger will create more fluff as much as manmade can.

I think I have an idea with that last comment. I need to do some research on this.

 

[millerm277]

Yeah, but what kind of flow are you putting out each of those Low-E guns???

Killington has a maximum water capacity of roughly (by their own numbers, I don't feel like finding the actual filings for water flow), 12000gpm. For 240 guns, that makes 50gpm per gun.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Killington has a maximum water capacity of roughly (by their own numbers, I don't feel like finding the actual filings for water flow), 12000gpm. For 240 guns, that makes 50gpm per gun.

Thanks, although my question was more rhetorical than anything. Just making sure that everyone realizes that the actual number of guns is not as relevant as the water flow, in terms of volume production.

Of course, maxing out your available water supply can be done in a variety of ways. You can go for lots of guns making a little snow, or fewer guns making a lot more snow. Depending on wetbulb temp, you may run out of air before you run out of water.

 

[WoodCore]

Thanks, although my question was more rhetorical than anything. Just making sure that everyone realizes that the actual number of guns is not as relevant as the water flow, in terms of volume production.

Of course, maxing out your available water supply can be done in a variety of ways. You can go for lots of guns making a little snow, or fewer guns making a lot more snow. Depending on wetbulb temp, you may run out of air before you run out of water.

Good points!

It really does boil down to available water and air that can be delivered to the hill and as the conditions become more favorable it becomes all about the volume of water because as we all know that's what makes the snow.

As an aside, seeing how everyone likes to talk about the snowmaking prowess of the big boys in the Northeast, Killington, Okemo, Sunday RIver, Mt Snow, Etc. Did you know there's a little hill Francestown, NH that literally blows the big guys away in terms of raw snowmaking power per acre? Crotched Mountain can pump up to 6000gpm to it's 100+ fan guns that are spread out over less than a 100 acres of terrain. Compare that to Sunday River who can pump water at a maximum of 9000gpm with more than 8x the terrain the terrain to cover. :roll:

 

[RootDKJ]

Killington gets water from a number of sources, including from Woodward Reservoir.

To my knowledge, all the air compressors are at the Snowshed Pumphouse, and Bear Mtn.

Water is the ultimate limiting factor for snowmaking in cold weather, but in marginal weather, the amount of air capacity they have tends to be the limiting factor instead.

I think there's some mid-mountain stuff, but I don't remember where. Then again, I could be thinking of another mountain altogether.