Park City/Talisker-Vail Lawsuit

[HowieT2]

There is nowhere on the East Coast that compares to the park scene at PCMR. Maybe Breck competes and thats it.

No doubt its not going to be the same, and certainly not 1 millions skier visits, but they should do fine.

Park City is a great town. Great towns can support businesses. Look at Jackson, Telluride, Aspen. All of these places would still exist and their clientel would still go there even if the skiing was second rate. These are just facts.

Jackson gained 60,000 skier visits total even with Utahs shitty snow year. 60k total. Colorado saw similar increases with Utah clientel.

Thats not much compared to the amount that will still go to the Utah resorts, no matter what happens.

Having a bad snow year is hardly the same as removing the lifts and closing the majority of the mtn. People booking vacations come winter take the weather risk but who's going to plan a ski vacation to resort that just removed it's lifts.

this is all very interesting as a spectator.

 

[thetrailboss]

Disagree. Skiing made these towns great. What's the difference between Alma, CO and Breckenridge, CO? (Answer: A ski hill. Alma is frozen in time and is just over Hoosier pass, Breck is home to 1M$ condos. Or Leadville, or Fairplay, or Hartsel, or a hundred other old mining towns) Because these ski towns are great, they survive well on the odd bad year, but if the skiing decreased by 70% permanently, these towns would see constant, and then rapid decline. Antler arches in the town square and silver dollars on the bar at Jackson is not going to carry the town. Trendy bars, restaurants, and vacation destinations all ebb and flow. Cut off the life blood, in this case, skiing, and the ebb gets very strong. Yes, there is an impressive client list at Aspen, yes, there is lots of wealthy residents, yes there is lots to do in the summer. Who in the 'in crowd' is going to want to be seen at the baby hill once it contracts? They will go where the action is, and take all their entourage, restaurant $$, clothes shopping, hangers on and vacation home $$ with them.

Agree that PC will be in trouble if Woodward moves in and PCMR dies.

And tomorrow is the BIG day--the hearing when Judge Harris determines if Talisker/Vail can evict PCMR:

Printed: 06/18/14 03:37:40 Page 1

3RD DISTRICT CT- SILVER SUMMIT
RYAN HARRIS June 19, 2014
COURTROOM 1 Thursday
09:00 AM UNLAWFUL DETAINER COUNTER 120500157 Miscellaneous
GREATER PARK CITY COMPANY ATTY: ZIMMERMAN, MICHAEL D
BOOHER, TROY L
METTLER, AMBER M
STOUT, CHRISTOPHER L
QUINN, JAMES W
SULLIVAN, ALAN L
MEYER, BRUCE S
GREATER PROPERTIES INC
VS.
UNITED PARK CITY MINES COMPANY ATTY: LUND, JOHN R
PETTIT, KARA L
PAIKIN, JONATHAN E
TALISKER LAND HOLDINGS LLC SHAPIRO, HOWARD M
TALISKER LAND RESOLUTION LLC
VR CPC HOLDINGS LLC BERGSIEKER, RYAN T
DIBBLE, JONATHAN A
BLUME, ROBERT C
FLERA LLC STORINO, DANIEL K
GILL, MICHAEL J
JAMES, MARK F
TALISKER CANYONS LEASECO LLC
TALISKER CANYONS FINANCECO LLC RUSSELL, PHILLIP J

 

[Highway Star]

Quit being a dumbass. The three older lifts will stay, but all the new stuff is just bolted down. Thats leaving and you will be getting some nice newer lifts at Killington. You should be psyched.

Precident in Utah (and many other states) says that "chairlifts" are a fixed assets. The court will have to decide, but it's HIGHLY unlikely.

 

[VTKilarney]

Woodward is not a long term solution. It was created to give Vail the impression that PCMR is not desperate to sell. They may drag their bluff out and run Woodward for a year or two, but it's still a bluff. The real test will be to see how much money they pump into it. If they don't pump anything substantial into it, that ought to tell you something.

 

[thetrailboss]

Woodward is not a long term solution. It was created to give Vail the impression that PCMR is not desperate to sell. They may drag their bluff out and run Woodward for a year or two, but it's still a bluff. The real test will be to see how much money they pump into it. If they don't pump anything substantial into it, that ought to tell you something.

True...with all the focus on that, I forgot that PCMR is indeed posturing with other aspects of the case. I agree that they are doing the same here.

 

[thetrailboss]

Precident in Utah (and many other states) says that "chairlifts" are a fixed assets. The court will have to decide, but it's HIGHLY unlikely.

I'm afraid that I agree with HS on this one. People generally don't pack up their chairlifts and go home.....

 

[thetrailboss]

Breaking News from Utah:

http://fox13now.com/2014/06/19/judge-grants-eviction-of-park-city-mountain-resort/

Game over for POWDR.

 

[drjeff]

Breaking News from Utah:

http://fox13now.com/2014/06/19/judge-grants-eviction-of-park-city-mountain-resort/

Game over for POWDR.

Getting the popcorn ready for what I'm sure will be the biggest Cumming hissy fit yet!

 

[Edd]

Breaking News from Utah:

http://fox13now.com/2014/06/19/judge-grants-eviction-of-park-city-mountain-resort/

Game over for POWDR.

Wow.

 

[thetrailboss]

Getting the popcorn ready for what I'm sure will be the biggest Cumming hissy fit yet!

For a guy whose Dad (apparently) was a ruthless business man, he is a bit of a weenie.

 

[AdironRider]

For a guy whose Dad (apparently) was a ruthless business man, he is a bit of a weenie.

When are kids who just inherit businesses ever not total tools?

Though TB, Id love to know why you think its game over from your legal perspective.

Mediation seems like far from it, no ruling on lifts this go round, etc.

Word on the street at Jackson is that this still leaves more questions than answers.

Vail isnt going to be able to turn the screws on an above market lease if the mediator has anything to do with it right?

 

[thetrailboss]

When are kids who just inherit businesses ever not total tools?

:lol:

Though TB, Id love to know why you think its game over from your legal perspective.

Well, if this is not settled, Talisker will have the legal right to call the Sherriff in and haul PCMR's asses out. So that is significant. I saw in one recent news article that PCMR thinks they will operate as usual this winter. Granted PCMR will try to stay that eviction pending the appeal....assuming that they do.

Mediation seems like far from it, no ruling on lifts this go round, etc.

Word on the street at Jackson is that this still leaves more questions than answers.

They, theoretically, should have at least attempted a mediation but maybe they didn't. Now that I look at it, I'd say Judge Harris' eviction ruling is clearly to force PCMR to settle and to give up. That is interesting. And yes it just leaves more unanswered questions, but what is clear is that on August 27th Cummings will be hauled out of there. Better start packing or get ready to deal.

Vail isnt going to be able to turn the screws on an above market lease if the mediator has anything to do with it right?

Well Vail has some pretty damn good leverage. They got a ruling that the lease is over. They got an order of eviction. They also have the court recognizing that PCMR owes them a buttload of money for squatting on the land without a lease. But PCMR has the base area, water, a ton of equipment on the land that they can't really get off too soon, and the ability to make Vail's life miserable with appeals, etc.

It would be an interesting mediation. Certainly it would turn into some kind of real estate deal I would think.

 

[AdironRider]

Mediation is always fun, yet to hear of one that wasnt like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

I ultimately see PWDR leasing the base facilities et al to Vail, most likely the lifts as well. When a renter gets evicted you dont keep the garden gnomes. I see that as PWDR's leverage. Having spent plenty of time down there, those water rights are pretty key as well. A lot of that terrain isnt really going to work without it.

According the park record the judge is apparently still going to weigh back in on the 27th, the stay could be extended. Leaves a door open for PWDR leverage wise at least there as well.

 

[thetrailboss]

Mediation is always fun, yet to hear of one that wasnt like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

I ultimately see PWDR leasing the base facilities et al to Vail, most likely the lifts as well. When a renter gets evicted you dont keep the garden gnomes. I see that as PWDR's leverage. Having spent plenty of time down there, those water rights are pretty key as well. A lot of that terrain isnt really going to work without it.

According the park record the judge is apparently still going to weigh back in on the 27th, the stay could be extended. Leaves a door open for PWDR leverage wise at least there as well.

I've seen mediations be successful and end conflict.

I'm not sure that POWDR wants to lease the base area or if Vail wants to lease it. We'll see.

And I've seen POWDR show a lot of emotions on this one. Perhaps because it was Cumming's first resort and where Nick Badami mentored him. If you go onto PCMR's site you can watch a video of Cumming waxing on about his time working with Badami. No doubt Badami is rolling in his grave on this one...and that Cumming is probably getting hammered right now after this decision.

 

[thetrailboss]

Now with video.....

http://fox13now.com/2014/06/19/judge-grants-eviction-of-park-city-mountain-resort/

For those that were upset about what POWDR did with Killington, I think that the bad karma has been served here.

 

[xlr8r]

That Vail/Talisker guy in the video looks a little too smug. Both Vail, and Powdr are going to have to make compromises if there is going to be skiing at Park City next year. IMO This is either going to wrap up quick with a deal for Vail to operate Park City, or say good bye to next ski season. Vail, now that they have the power hand, need to be careful. If they don't come to some kind of agreement, and do evict Powdr, I can see this destroying business for the whole Park City area next year. I mean really who is stupid enough to plan a trip there right now. This will kill business at Canyons as well as Deer Valley, but might boost business at Snowbird.

 

[thetrailboss]

That Vail/Talisker guy in the video looks a little too smug. Both Vail, and Powdr are going to have to make compromises if there is going to be skiing at Park City next year. IMO This is either going to wrap up quick with a deal for Vail to operate Park City, or say good bye to next ski season. Vail, now that they have the power hand, need to be careful. If they don't come to some kind of agreement, and do evict Powdr, I can see this destroying business for the whole Park City area next year. I mean really who is stupid enough to plan a trip there right now. This will kill business at Canyons as well as Deer Valley, but might boost business at Snowbird.

That's Talisker's lawyer.



Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[thetrailboss]

Some more food for thought:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58094241-78/pcmr-ski-park-resort.html.csp

 

[steamboat1]

I'm with Cummings on this one. Screw Tallisker & Vail. Screw the residents & businesses of Park City too that support this. If Vail wants to pay big $$$ to Tallisker for 2/3 of a ski area without a base, parking or access that's there problem. For the residents & businesses supporting this it's there problem too. The judge can't force Powdr off the land they own or give Vail/Tallisker access to the infrastructure & rights associated with that land. Cummings can do whatever he damn well pleases with his land. If anyone should be looking to make a deal it's the idiots that signed onto this deal to begin with. Powdr has much less to lose than the town or Vail at this point. Tallisker is laughing all the way to the bank at Vail & Park City's expense while everyone seems to be blaming Powdr/Cummings. It's Tallisker that started this crap. Powdr has already lost 2/3 of the ski area. They've got nothing left to lose. Vail & the town of Park City however have a lot more to lose.

 

[thetrailboss]

I'm with Cummings on this one. Screw Tallisker & Vail. Screw the residents & businesses of Park City too that support this. If Vail wants to pay big $$$ to Tallisker for 2/3 of a ski area without a base, parking or access that's there problem. For the residents & businesses supporting this it's there problem too. The judge can't force Powdr off the land they own or give Vail/Tallisker access to the infrastructure & rights associated with that land. Cummings can do whatever he damn well pleases with his land. If anyone should be looking to make a deal it's the idiots that signed onto this deal to begin with. Powdr has much less to lose than the town or Vail at this point. Tallisker is laughing all the way to the bank at Vail & Park City's expense while everyone seems to be blaming Powdr/Cummings. It's Tallisker that started this crap. Powdr has already lost 2/3 of the ski area. They've got nothing left to lose. Vail & the town of Park City however have a lot more to lose.

Well POWDR started the crap by not renewing the lease.