Searching for and choosing a college

[Geoff]

These two moments define why if I was to drop dead right now, I could call my life complete.

I think you fail to see the larger picture

 

[hammer]

The college decisions (for those who didn't apply early) are starting to come in...exciting times, as much for the parents as for the student.

 

[legalskier]

In case anyone's interested....

‘Best Colleges’? Counselors Beg to Differ With U.S. News
Your high school counselor may not be a fan of the U.S. News and World Report rankings of “Best Colleges,” at least based on the findings of a survey released Thursday morning.
In the survey by the National Association for College Admission Counseling, a leading membership group, a majority of college counselors responded that they had “negative opinions” of the U.S. News rankings and suggested that they “offer misleading conclusions about institutional quality.” Specifically,.... ***
Full story: http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/19/nacac-on-usnews/?src=twrhp

 

[hammer]

Should have mentioned...son is going to UMASS Amherst. His choice to go there but having to only pay in-state rates of ~$20K/year is definitely better than trying to figure out how to handle $50K/year for a private school.

A few things I noticed were that

• he got accepted into the schools that I expected he would
• financial aid and scholarships may be out there, but not for us... :-(

 

[SkiFanE]

Should have mentioned...son is going to UMASS Amherst. His choice to go there but having to only pay in-state rates of ~$20K/year is definitely better than trying to figure out how to handle $50K/year for a private school.

A few things I noticed were that

• he got accepted into the schools that I expected he would
• financial aid and scholarships may be out there, but not for us... :-(

Yahoo..my alma mater (where I met hubby). Good choice. Got out without any debt. Not sure I made the most of my education, too much socializing. I wouldn't choose it over Ivy League, but considering I work alongside very few Ivy grads (except for the doctors), I do work alongside people that spent 2-3x as much as I did on my education (BU, BC, Stonehill, Merrimac, UNH, etc..) and we are in the same jobs..so what was the point of spending all that $?!

Edited..for dorms, he should try for Central first (most laid back). I was in Southwest highrise as freshman, then got to a lowrise..that turned out to be 'THE' druggy dorm. Maybe that had something to do with my over-socializing? Oh..who knows what has changed over 20+ years..but I suspect not that.

 

[ChileMass]

Yahoo..my alma mater (where I met hubby). Good choice. Got out without any debt. Not sure I made the most of my education, too much socializing. I wouldn't choose it over Ivy League, but considering I work alongside very few Ivy grads (except for the doctors), I do work alongside people that spent 2-3x as much as I did on my education (BU, BC, Stonehill, Merrimac, UNH, etc..) and we are in the same jobs..so what was the point of spending all that $?!

Edited..for dorms, he should try for Central first (most laid back). I was in Southwest highrise as freshman, then got to a lowrise..that turned out to be 'THE' druggy dorm. Maybe that had something to do with my over-socializing? Oh..who knows what has changed over 20+ years..but I suspect not that.

Thanks for the validation - as a father of a just-finished freshman daughter at UMass, I have to say it was the best possible choice we could have made. It was her choice anyway, so it saves us some $$$, but she LOVES IT. She was in Central (Butterfield) this year, and got great grades while making lots of friends. It could not have turned out any better.

My neighbors just agonized for months over 11 (!!) private schools for their daughter (senior in HS) and finally chose Wake Forest at $55K per year. I overheard her Mom wondering how in hell they're going to pay for it, and when I asked the daughter what she planned to major in, she replied that she had no idea. This is not a good plan........

I live in a relatively well-off town in East/Central Mass where waaaaay too many kids are waaaaaay too spoiled and parents think that if they don't send their kid to Stanford or Villanova or Syracuse or BC that little Johnny or Janie is getting short-changed. What pampered bullshit. Wait till Johnny and Janie (and Mom and Dad) have to start paying back $200K in school bills.....

Stupid....

 

[riverc0il]

My neighbors just agonized for months over 11 (!!) private schools for their daughter (senior in HS) and finally chose Wake Forest at $55K per year. I overheard her Mom wondering how in hell they're going to pay for it, and when I asked the daughter what she planned to major in, she replied that she had no idea. This is not a good plan........

I live in a relatively well-off town in East/Central Mass where waaaaay too many kids are waaaaaay too spoiled and parents think that if they don't send their kid to Stanford or Villanova or Syracuse or BC that little Johnny or Janie is getting short-changed. What pampered bullshit. Wait till Johnny and Janie (and Mom and Dad) have to start paying back $200K in school bills.....

Stupid....

$55k/year. Wow. That is too much if you don't even know what major you want to study. I think there are studies out there showing that the name of the school you graduate from does not correlate to future success or salary or something like that. In some cases, you really might need a specific name. Or a certain school might have one of the best programs in the country for a specific major. But otherwise, ick. The difference between a big name school and regular school is a down payment on a house and then some. Hard to justify if someone is going into college undeclared.

 

[hammer]

Thanks for the validation - as a father of a just-finished freshman daughter at UMass, I have to say it was the best possible choice we could have made. It was her choice anyway, so it saves us some $$$, but she LOVES IT. She was in Central (Butterfield) this year, and got great grades while making lots of friends. It could not have turned out any better.

My neighbors just agonized for months over 11 (!!) private schools for their daughter (senior in HS) and finally chose Wake Forest at $55K per year. I overheard her Mom wondering how in hell they're going to pay for it, and when I asked the daughter what she planned to major in, she replied that she had no idea. This is not a good plan........

I live in a relatively well-off town in East/Central Mass where waaaaay too many kids are waaaaaay too spoiled and parents think that if they don't send their kid to Stanford or Villanova or Syracuse or BC that little Johnny or Janie is getting short-changed. What pampered bullshit. Wait till Johnny and Janie (and Mom and Dad) have to start paying back $200K in school bills.....

Stupid....

Thanks for the validation on UMASS. I'm still concerned about the size of the school but we'll have to see how that works out.

Regarding cost, if our son was really set on a private school we would have somehow figured out a way to pay for it. He wasn't, though...I think UMASS was his favorite from when we first started going on school tours.

I know I've been out for a long time (coming up on 25 years since getting my BS degree) but even just over $20K for a state school is a lot IMO.

Yahoo..my alma mater (where I met hubby). Good choice. Got out without any debt. Not sure I made the most of my education, too much socializing. I wouldn't choose it over Ivy League, but considering I work alongside very few Ivy grads (except for the doctors), I do work alongside people that spent 2-3x as much as I did on my education (BU, BC, Stonehill, Merrimac, UNH, etc..) and we are in the same jobs..so what was the point of spending all that $?!

Edited..for dorms, he should try for Central first (most laid back). I was in Southwest highrise as freshman, then got to a lowrise..that turned out to be 'THE' druggy dorm. Maybe that had something to do with my over-socializing? Oh..who knows what has changed over 20+ years..but I suspect not that.

He's actually signed up for one of the Southwest low rises, but it's in a special residence program where he's on the same floor as others who are interested in the health sciences. I'm hoping he will get additional information when he goes to summer orientation in a few weeks. I am concerned about the dorm environment and I plan on doing some checking myself during parent orientation...but it is ultimately my son's choice, good, bad, or otherwise.

 

[meff]

Another UMass alum here - great school and it totally is what you make of it.

And if Chancellor Holub is renewed it will continue to get better under his leadership. So far he has raised the average incoming SAT and GPA, played a key roll in upgrading the football program and has created a new living area for the honors program - yet there was an article in the Globe that the board wants to fire him.

As far as the dorms, I'd totally be going for North Residential area which is the newest area. I loved living it southwest, but its not for everyone.

We still are back on campus a lot between going to football and hockey games and its changed a lot in the last five to ten years with a lot of new buildings.

 

[krisskis]

I also am going through, but just about done, with the college choice for my son who is a senior. He applied to alot of schools too. Good student...honor roll...4 college level classes this year, 1 AP class, 3 college level classes as a junior but no activities. Joined clubs went to a meeting or 2 and then quit. Played football and lacrosse for years and then quit in his JV and varsity years. I tell you, even with the grades its hard to get accepted. I told him to apply to all types of schools...private, SUNY, CUNY and whatnot. Heres how it worked out....

Pace University-Manhattan...accepted...$52K/year for tuition, room and board.
SUNY Stony Brook...not accepted...under $5K/year tuition...$10K/year room and board.
SUNY Albany...accepted...same as above.
Long Island University/CW Post...accepted...about $42K/year tuition room and board.
Mercy College-Dobbs Ferry NY...accepted into Honors College...about $38K/year tuition room and board.
Northeastern University...not accepted
Hofstra University..Long Island...accepted...about $48K/year tuition room and board.
CUNY/City College of New York...accepted...under $5K/year tuition...about $13K/year for dorming.

All the private schools offered him academic scholarships between $10K and $15K/year.

He knows his major which is Biology and he is heading for a Phsycian Assistants Program and hoping to do Emergency/Trauma when he graduates. He had his heart set on Pace, but trying to get a 17 yr old to understand that he was going to come out of college with what basically amounted to owing a mortgage wasnt getting through his thick head. He also wants out of the house and away but not THAT far away...he works 2 jobs here on Long Island and wants to be able to work a bit during weekends. So after doing a last minute campus tour of CUNY/CCNY in the middle of April of THIS year He fell in love with the campus and the school and the dorms!! Came home..sent in the deposits and away he goes!! And he is just a subway and LIRR train ride away from home We decided he will take the gov't loan for his tuition ( we dont qualify for any financial aid) which will help him build a credit history and I will pay for his dorming. The school is very well respected and they have a fantastic medical school/PA program there (Sophie Davis Medical School) So he doesnt even need to leave for graduate school if he doesnt want to, but is possibly looking at Duke for grad school. But we have to get through 4 yrs undergrad first...LOL.

I am glad the search is over...for now. In a couple years i start again with my 8th grade daughter. I am hoping for sports scholarships to help with her as she is looking at Duke, Notre Dame, UNC, Marist and a few others known for their lacrosse programs. She has been a starting girls lacrosse goalie since 2nd grade and girl lax goalies from LI do pretty well with scholarships

Good luck to everyone and their kids!!

 

[Geoff]

A college is only as good as the students they educate. Economics have turned UMass Amherst into a much better school. Back in the mid-1970's when I was applying, UMass was my emergency backup school and had the ZooMass reputation of being party-central. As more and more people got priced out of private schools, the quality of the average student at UMass got better and better. If you have not-so-bright underachievers as your classmates, the profs have no choice but to dumb down their classes. If you go to a college that is quite selective, the students can handle a more aggressive course of study.

Personally, I don't think that the economics of 4 years away at a college make any sense with today's prices. For entry level courses, you get pretty much the same material at your local state college as you do at the larger school where you have to pay for housing. Ignoring the social implications, you're probably better off doing 2 years at a local school paying out of cash flow instead of borrowing and then transfer to a better school to do your last two years once you've sorted out what you want to study. That way, you don't end up in the trap of being saddled with $50K in school loans before you flunk out.

 

[SkiFanE]

I also am going through, but just about done, with the college choice for my son who is a senior. He applied to alot of schools too. Good student...honor roll...4 college level classes this year, 1 AP class, 3 college level classes as a junior but no activities. Joined clubs went to a meeting or 2 and then quit. Played football and lacrosse for years and then quit in his JV and varsity years. I tell you, even with the grades its hard to get accepted. I told him to apply to all types of schools...private, SUNY, CUNY and whatnot. Heres how it worked out....

Pace University-Manhattan...accepted...$52K/year for tuition, room and board.
SUNY Stony Brook...not accepted...under $5K/year tuition...$10K/year room and board.
SUNY Albany...accepted...same as above.
Long Island University/CW Post...accepted...about $42K/year tuition room and board.
Mercy College-Dobbs Ferry NY...accepted into Honors College...about $38K/year tuition room and board.
Northeastern University...not accepted
Hofstra University..Long Island...accepted...about $48K/year tuition room and board.
CUNY/City College of New York...accepted...under $5K/year tuition...about $13K/year for dorming.

All the private schools offered him academic scholarships between $10K and $15K/year.

He knows his major which is Biology and he is heading for a Phsycian Assistants Program and hoping to do Emergency/Trauma when he graduates. He had his heart set on Pace, but trying to get a 17 yr old to understand that he was going to come out of college with what basically amounted to owing a mortgage wasnt getting through his thick head. He also wants out of the house and away but not THAT far away...he works 2 jobs here on Long Island and wants to be able to work a bit during weekends. So after doing a last minute campus tour of CUNY/CCNY in the middle of April of THIS year He fell in love with the campus and the school and the dorms!! Came home..sent in the deposits and away he goes!! And he is just a subway and LIRR train ride away from home We decided he will take the gov't loan for his tuition ( we dont qualify for any financial aid) which will help him build a credit history and I will pay for his dorming. The school is very well respected and they have a fantastic medical school/PA program there (Sophie Davis Medical School) So he doesnt even need to leave for graduate school if he doesnt want to, but is possibly looking at Duke for grad school. But we have to get through 4 yrs undergrad first...LOL.

I am glad the search is over...for now. In a couple years i start again with my 8th grade daughter. I am hoping for sports scholarships to help with her as she is looking at Duke, Notre Dame, UNC, Marist and a few others known for their lacrosse programs. She has been a starting girls lacrosse goalie since 2nd grade and girl lax goalies from LI do pretty well with scholarships

Good luck to everyone and their kids!!

Interesting. Thanks for the run down. I have a freshman in HS, and we had the reality check discussion a few months ago. After she was talking about going to college in CA or FL, or Colby or $$$. That we can't pay for that. And she does NOT want to assume loans, and we are not doing it on her behalf. We have 3 kids, x $200k = $600k...bwhahah. We probably would get no aid, we can afford state college w/o debt, so it's up to scholarships and things to make up diff. She was a slacker in MS until 8th grade when she put the after burners on. Since our talk, she's been busting ass. She's also getting stressed, not sleeping. Talked last week and she said she is working hard to get As to get scholarships. She wants to do some peer/mentor leadership next year, b/c it looks good on a college app. I hate that it's stressing her out, but if she knew she had a blank check, I don't think she'd be working so hard.

Funny about being a goalie. She started field hockey as a freshman, and volunteered as goalie and turned out to be terrific, coaches and team loved her, called her a natural. We don't know the scholarship possibilities, but she's going to continue next year.

And congrats to your son. Sounds like things worked out well in the end for everyone.

 

[SkiFanE]

A college is only as good as the students they educate. Economics have turned UMass Amherst into a much better school. Back in the mid-1970's when I was applying, UMass was my emergency backup school and had the ZooMass reputation of being party-central. As more and more people got priced out of private schools, the quality of the average student at UMass got better and better. If you have not-so-bright underachievers as your classmates, the profs have no choice but to dumb down their classes. If you go to a college that is quite selective, the students can handle a more aggressive course of study.

Personally, I don't think that the economics of 4 years away at a college make any sense with today's prices. For entry level courses, you get pretty much the same material at your local state college as you do at the larger school where you have to pay for housing. Ignoring the social implications, you're probably better off doing 2 years at a local school paying out of cash flow instead of borrowing and then transfer to a better school to do your last two years once you've sorted out what you want to study. That way, you don't end up in the trap of being saddled with $50K in school loans before you flunk out.

I went in mid-80s. We blamed the zoo-massers for ruining things for us, they outlawed kegs in dorms after someone tossed a keg down the elevator shaft from 20th floor of highrise. The injustice...had to haul up cases How times have changed.

 

[Nick]

I'm a big fan of state schools for the price alone. I was in the air guard in college and basically college was free. I went to Bridgewater State in MA for my bachelors, and then spent 10x that getting my master's degree at Bentley later. I'm still not sure it was worth it.

 

[Nick]

Pace University-Manhattan...accepted...$52K/year for tuition, room and board.
Long Island University/CW Post...accepted...about $42K/year tuition room and board.
Mercy College-Dobbs Ferry NY...accepted into Honors College...about $38K/year tuition room and board.
Hofstra University..Long Island...accepted...about $48K/year tuition room and board.

Holy Shit!

Has it gone up that much just in the eight years since I went to my undergrad? When I was in college from 1999 -2003, all the private schools were right around the $20 - $25k mark. It's literally doubled since then??!!

By the time I have kids in college it will probably be $150k / year. :roll:

 

[deadheadskier]

When I entered Skidmore College in Fall of 94, tuition, room and board was 28K, so these 50K figures don't surprise me much.

My kids will get tennis rackets in their hands at 5 months :lol:

 

[SkiFanE]

When I entered Skidmore College in Fall of 94, tuition, room and board was 28K, so these 50K figures don't surprise me much.

My kids will get tennis rackets in their hands at 5 months :lol:

I left Umass and it was $5k/year with room and board (in-state) in late 80s. By 1991-ish it had already doubled and was up to $10k/year. It's now about $20/k.

Look into obscure things. Javelin and discus? lol. Run from soccer, too much competition.

 

[deadheadskier]

I transferred in state to University of Vermont. Tuition and fees was around 9K in the mid -late 90s for residents. Not sure what the board was as I lived off campus.

My brother went to Colorado State in the mid 90s and tuition was 3K/yr for residents.

 

[Warp Daddy]

I put a couple kids thru Pharmacy at UB and a Masters program in MATH AND SPENT LESS THAN 50 K FOR 10 YRS AND 3 DEGREES IN THE 90'S . At the same time i was in a PhD and my wife was doing her undergrad as a non trad student .


All in all a super return on investment for us ,

But given today's "champagne pricing" strategies at several institutions who often provide payoff for the majority of those who enter beforehand (WITH SOCIAL CAPITAL beforehand ie old $$$ , or the nouveau riche. or old family connectedness ie social register ) are simply not a good choice for todays 2 income professional families who because of income face the possibility of limited "GIFT AID " FA pkgs

 

[Nick]

I seriously don't think I would ever encourage my kids to go to a school that would leave them with a $200k plus loan. And that's just for undergrad. They do grad school and now they owe $300k. That's a decent sized house in a lot of parts right about now. You're paying $1500 a month for 30 years to pay that off. How is that even possible when starting salaries are like $50k a year for some jobs, if you are lucky.