Sugarloaf 2030

[skicub]

http://www.sugarloaf2030.com

Looks like the biggest new terrain build out of all the Boyne-NE Big3.

Interesting that they will shorten West Mountain Double, but even more interesting to see what looks like an extended Skyline (on the Proposed West Map), potentially being as close to a top-bottom lift as they’ve had since the Gondi.

We’ll see...


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[Zand]

They forgot about putting a teleportal inside the Bag & Kettle so you can get there from anywhere.

 

[deadheadskier]

Very cool plans. Though I feel the Superquad replacement with a HS6 should be the top priority over West Expansion.

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[bdfreetuna]

Burnt Mountain surface lift for those who don't want to pay $$$ for a couple cat skiing runs

 

[EPB]

Very cool plans. Though I feel the Superquad replacement with a HS6 should be the top priority over West Expansion.

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I don't mind it because the new parking, shiny lift and intermediate terrain should draw people away from the SQ and main base area. We'll see though. Curious to know if the SQ is repurposed elsewhere.

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[Jully]

I don't mind it because the new parking, shiny lift and intermediate terrain should draw people away from the SQ and main base area. We'll see though. Curious to know if the SQ is repurposed elsewhere.

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Overall it sounds like the new west mountain is going to be a bigger operations hub. With new real estate developments, the summer ops home with the bike park, and a new lodge, I find it interesting given the village.

Village "upgrades" are also listed and we don't know the size of the lodge in the new development so this could be a South Park at Loon type situation. But they're moving traffic away from the village which may hurt business there.

 

[Newpylong]

I guess Boyne keeps my head scratching.

I would prioritize replacement of the Superquad and other aging lifts over adding additional acreage. I feel they had the perfect pod for intermediate/high beginner terrain and that was Bucksaw, but the lift started in the wrong location and needed replacement. Given the conceptual layout, they're going to now add a lift and runs in the opposite direction, and the trails previously served directly by Bucksaw will remain difficult to get to and underutilized from the SQ or the new West Mountain lift. To me, West Mountain only makes sense if a future lift goes in starting adjacent to the SQ, ending at Bullwinkles.

 

[skiMEbike]

I guess Boyne keeps my head scratching.

I would prioritize replacement of the Superquad and other aging lifts over adding additional acreage. I feel they had the perfect pod for intermediate/high beginner terrain and that was Bucksaw, but the lift started in the wrong location and needed replacement. Given the conceptual layout, they're going to now add a lift and runs in the opposite direction, and the trails previously served directly by Bucksaw will remain difficult to get to and underutilized from the SQ or the new West Mountain lift. To me, West Mountain only makes sense if a future lift goes in starting adjacent to the SQ, ending at Bullwinkles.

You do realize that the new lift will dump you out at Bullwinkles with direct access to the Bucksaw trails you mention. While I am scratching my head a little bit too on why some of the older lifts are not priority (Snubber, sawduster, skidway, double runner), I do kind of get where they are going with this (and I am on board). They are trying to alleviate some of the congestion/traffic around the base lodge/SQ while also trying bolster summer time revenue (with biking, golfing, weddings, bullwinkles activities, etc), so a shiny new lift & base lodge separate from the jigsaw puzzle base area/village they have now will be more attractive (and hopefully provide more return than trying to upgrade what they have). It also appears to have much more convenient parking set up which current base area does not. If you are not familiar with the history of the Sugarloaf base area....Everything has been pieced together with add on after add on. There was never a master plan/layout of the village area, and as a result the set up, flow of traffic & congestion depicts that. After all part of the Sugarloaf base area was brought in on a flatbed truck from 7 miles down the road :-o

Superquad will eventually get replaced as part of the plan just not priority for phase 1, and this new pod of trails/lift will help with the issues in the base area and Superquad. I am just so glad they didn't go with adding a new lift in Bracket (as some would have liked to see)...To me this would be a waste of money, and ruin a unique experience.

 

[thetrailboss]

Interesting plan. How did they end up with accomplishing their 2020 plan?

 

[machski]

Very cool plans. Though I feel the Superquad replacement with a HS6 should be the top priority over West Expansion.

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The problem is that they have thrown quite a bit of $$ at Superquad over the past decade to improve it's electrical controls and reliability. have to amortiZe out those costs. Additionally, Boyne has prioritized multiseasonal expansions/upgrades and it sounds as though the new West mountain will anchor their summer business. Plus, I agree this new side will take some of the skier pressure off of Superquad. I like the direction they are aiming for here.

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[Newpylong]

You do realize that the new lift will dump you out at Bullwinkles with direct access to the Bucksaw trails you mention. While I am scratching my head a little bit too on why some of the older lifts are not priority (Snubber, sawduster, skidway, double runner), I do kind of get where they are going with this (and I am on board). They are trying to alleviate some of the congestion/traffic around the base lodge/SQ while also trying bolster summer time revenue (with biking, golfing, weddings, bullwinkles activities, etc), so a shiny new lift & base lodge separate from the jigsaw puzzle base area/village they have now will be more attractive (and hopefully provide more return than trying to upgrade what they have). It also appears to have much more convenient parking set up which current base area does not. If you are not familiar with the history of the Sugarloaf base area....Everything has been pieced together with add on after add on. There was never a master plan/layout of the village area, and as a result the set up, flow of traffic & congestion depicts that. After all part of the Sugarloaf base area was brought in on a flatbed truck from 7 miles down the road :-o

Superquad will eventually get replaced as part of the plan just not priority for phase 1, and this new pod of trails/lift will help with the issues in the base area and Superquad. I am just so glad they didn't go with adding a new lift in Bracket (as some would have liked to see)...To me this would be a waste of money, and ruin a unique experience.

It won't though, because the condo development prevents you from getting to the bottom of the new lift from the bottom of any of those trails.

 

[Slidebrook87]

I’m mostly a fan of these plans, but I think Timberline, SQ, and DRC should be replaced before West Mountain happens. A new DRC would really improve the beginner experience. While the West Mountain expansion is certainly cool, it could be put off for a few years.


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[machski]

I’m mostly a fan of these plans, but I think Timberline, SQ, and DRC should be replaced before West Mountain happens. A new DRC would really improve the beginner experience. While the West Mountain expansion is certainly cool, it could be put off for a few years.


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From a skiing only perspective, yes on your thoughts for the West Mountain stuff. But to reiterate, Boyne has put a priority on expanded multi season offerings at its resorts. West Mountain will be the summer season anchor by these plans and that is why this is the priority on the SL 2030 plan. Plain and simple. It's why SR is getting the observation tower this year and the Golf Course was bought outright (Chondola is already in place on North Peak). It would not surprise me to see the Mountain Coaster at SR moved up to an earlier timeframe (especially since the ziplines and mountain biking have been pulled out). It is why Loon is getting the Kanc8 first (because that lift will anchor the Mountain Bike park starting summer 2021).

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[deadheadskier]

Timberline would be last on my list. It's open so infrequently due to wind and that's unlikely to change significantly with a new chair. There's just not the same potential ROI on its replacement.

At one point there was talk of a potential surface lift going from Skyline (Lookers right of it) to the summit building area. I think that makes far more sense for more reliable summit access.

The thought of a chair from Bullwinkle's to a revamped summit facility is cool, but its kind of silly money compared to other needs.

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[Slidebrook87]

From a skiing only perspective, yes on your thoughts for the West Mountain stuff. But to reiterate, Boyne has put a priority on expanded multi season offerings at its resorts. West Mountain will be the summer season anchor by these plans and that is why this is the priority on the SL 2030 plan. Plain and simple. It's why SR is getting the observation tower this year and the Golf Course was bought outright (Chondola is already in place on North Peak). It would not surprise me to see the Mountain Coaster at SR moved up to an earlier timeframe (especially since the ziplines and mountain biking have been pulled out). It is why Loon is getting the Kanc8 first (because that lift will anchor the Mountain Bike park starting summer 2021).

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It’s confusing to me why they want to move all their operations over to West Mountain when they already have a well established base area. They should expand the current village and put a bike park off of Whiffletree similarly to how I think a new bike park should be built off of Gate House at Sugarbush. Seems like a bike park is a priority for both.


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[machski]

It’s confusing to me why they want to move all their operations over to West Mountain when they already have a well established base area. They should expand the current village and put a bike park off of Whiffletree similarly to how I think a new bike park should be built off of Gate House at Sugarbush. Seems like a bike park is a priority for both.


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But you miss a key part of Boyne's plan at West, and that is to connect the new West Base to Bullie's restaurant for functions/events. It would not shock me if the new survey line lift becomes a Chondola for that purpose. Also, the new terrain off west may be better graded towards all levels of bike riders (though WT seems to have that type of terrain as well, though not sure it has the woods to separate bike trails from ski trails). Finally, I have read many complaints from Loafers this year regarding parking on weekends (Ikon hate is growing up there). Parking is maxed in the current base area, SL badly needs a second portal to access the mountain in the ski season. The West Base plan will provide that needed relief point.

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[thetrailboss]

But you miss a key part of Boyne's plan at West, and that is to connect the new West Base to Bullie's restaurant for functions/events. It would not shock me if the new survey line lift becomes a Chondola for that purpose. Also, the new terrain off west may be better graded towards all levels of bike riders (though WT seems to have that type of terrain as well, though not sure it has the woods to separate bike trails from ski trails). Finally, I have read many complaints from Loafers this year regarding parking on weekends (Ikon hate is growing up there). Parking is maxed in the current base area, SL badly needs a second portal to access the mountain in the ski season. The West Base plan will provide that needed relief point.

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Another IKON pass member having crowding problems? Surely you must be mistaken.... [emoji6]


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[jaytrem]

Their plan is similar to what Whitefish did about 15 years ago. Moved the base lodge/day skier parking away from the village. Seems like it worked out pretty well for them.

 

[deadheadskier]

It’s confusing to me why they want to move all their operations over to West Mountain when they already have a well established base area. They should expand the current village and put a bike park off of Whiffletree similarly to how I think a new bike park should be built off of Gate House at Sugarbush. Seems like a bike park is a priority for both.


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Machski covered a lot of the reasoning behind the movement to the West, but a few more points.

A. I don't know how much experience you have at Sugarloaf, but there's very limited space to expand their current base area operations, whether it's additional lodging / restaurants / retail or most especially lifts. A higher capacity DR chair will help get people out of the base some, but WT and SQ would still be swamped without a fourth high capacity lift somewhere else. The old Bucksaw line really isn't the spot any more with all the condos they built there. It's also further from the lodge than the Superquad, which is already a slog. The only place for more lodging type buildings is below the hotel in it's parking lot. Sounds like that will eventually happen if business warrants.

B. The current base village setup positively sucks for day trip skiers, which there are many at SL. There's the small lot next to the hotel that you can walk to the base lodge from, but everything else is a satellite lot requiring a shuttle to the lodge. Then the only lift that's reasonably convenient from the lodge to start your day is Whiffletree. The DR and SQ both kinda suck to walk to from the lodge. A new West area lodge with parking plus the ability for passholders to park and ski to the new lift from existing satellite lots will be a much better experience. Far fewer day trip skiers would need to take shuttles to start their day.

C. One of the best kept secrets at Sugarloaf is how good the tree skiing is off Upper Whiffletree pitches. It is vast and has great spacing and flow. I would definitely not want to see that terrain altered by a bike park that's really likely to get minimal use. The place is dead in the summer. Whiffletree also doesn't have a Bullwinkle's at the top. The new lift becomes dual purpose. It serves the new bike park and ferries guests up to Bullwinkle's for weddings and events. Sugarloaf does have a very good shuttle bus system. People won't have an issue taking a shuttle to tubing in winter as much as they do getting to and from their cars with their ski gear on shuttles to start and end their day like they do now.

Overall I think their 2030 vision is great and well thought out to maximize efficiencies. I only disagree with waiting on the SQ replacement or putting Timberline and Summit building even on the radar right now. Save that for SL2040. SL summit is a unique and awesome Eastern experience, but the weather is just too harsh up top for consistent operations. Harshest of any ski area in New England honestly.



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[thetrailboss]

Machski covered a lot of the reasoning behind the movement to the West, but a few more points.

A. I don't know how much experience you have at Sugarloaf, but there's very limited space to expand their current base area operations, whether it's additional lodging / restaurants / retail or most especially lifts. A higher capacity DR chair will help get people out of the base some, but WT and SQ would still be swamped without a fourth high capacity lift somewhere else. The old Bucksaw line really isn't the spot any more with all the condos they built there. It's also further from the lodge than the Superquad, which is already a slog. The only place for more lodging type buildings is below the hotel in it's parking lot. Sounds like that will eventually happen if business warrants.

B. The current base village setup positively sucks for day trip skiers, which there are many at SL. There's the small lot next to the hotel that you can walk to the base lodge from, but everything else is a satellite lot requiring a shuttle to the lodge. Then the only lift that's reasonably convenient from the lodge to start your day is Whiffletree. The DR and SQ both kinda suck to walk to from the lodge. A new West area lodge with parking plus the ability for passholders to park and ski to the new lift from existing satellite lots will be a much better experience. Far fewer day trip skiers would need to take shuttles to start their day.

C. One of the best kept secrets at Sugarloaf is how good the tree skiing is off Upper Whiffletree pitches. It is vast and has great spacing and flow. I would definitely not want to see that terrain altered by a bike park that's really likely to get minimal use. The place is dead in the summer. Whiffletree also doesn't have a Bullwinkle's at the top. The new lift becomes dual purpose. It serves the new bike park and ferries guests up to Bullwinkle's for weddings and events. Sugarloaf does have a very good shuttle bus system. People won't have an issue taking a shuttle to tubing in winter as much as they do getting to and from their cars with their ski gear on shuttles to start and end their day like they do now.

Overall I think their 2030 vision is great and well thought out to maximize efficiencies. I only disagree with waiting on the SQ replacement or putting Timberline and Summit building even on the radar right now. Save that for SL2040. SL summit is a unique and awesome Eastern experience, but the weather is just too harsh up top for consistent operations. Harshest of any ski area in New England honestly.



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Good post. I agree.