SUV's and winter driving-

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

here's your data: http://www.iihs.org/research/hldi/ictl_pdf/ictl_0906.pdf
Draw your own conclusions!

Thanks. Good link.

I just note in passing that no American SUVs were below-average or worse in terms of injury risk....

 

[Marc]

Good contribution, billski. Good to have some hard data.

 

[ctenidae]

Thanks. Good link.

I just note in passing that no American SUVs were below-average or worse in terms of injury risk....

I'd call that a function of the number of American SUVs more than of quality. If you are the majority, then you set the average, pretty much. Could also be that America is the greatest country on earth. :flag: God drives a 4X4.

Is it possible for Jesus to freeze a road so slick even He couldn't get traction?

 

[bvibert]

I think it's a matter of who is more likely to use driving gloves. Clearly the Neanderthals that drive SUVs are much less likely to do so, thus causing more out of control situations. It's proven fact, go look it up.

 

[Hawkshot99]

I think it's a matter of who is more likely to use driving gloves. Clearly the Neanderthals that drive SUVs are much less likely to do so, thus causing more out of control situations. It's proven fact, go look it up.

Those things are ugly. Crap I drive a SUV! I am screwed and just proved you right. I drive SUV with no gloves.....:smash:

The reason I think you see more SUV's crashed in bad weather is that there are way more of them out there. They are much better in the snow if driven properly, so they are more likely to be out there than the people who know that their car is not good in the snow.

When I get snow, I usually head for some big parking lots to practice my snow driving. when my car starts sliding, I know how to correct it. It was the same when I had a Ford Escort, I knew how to control it because I practiced in it. When i take my dad's truck out in snow, I hate driving it, as I am not used to having no traction on the rear wheels. If I drove it alot, I am sure I would be more comfortable.

 

[koreshot]

They are much better in the snow if driven properly.

Can you please explain better? I am asking because Petter Solberg and the rest of the WRC organization might disagree with that statement.

 

[ctenidae]

Can you please explain better? I am asking because Petter Solberg and the rest of the WRC organization might disagree with that statement.

I don't know- it seems logical to me that a properly driven 4WD vehicle would, in fact, be better in poor conditions than most other vehicles, also properly driven. The crux of the problem here, though, is that most SUVs are not properly driven.

 

[aoneil]

Is it possible for Jesus to freeze a road so slick even He couldn't get traction?

He doesn't need traction. He can walk on water, too. :blink:

 

[koreshot]

I don't know- it seems logical to me that a properly driven 4WD vehicle would, in fact, be better in poor conditions than most other vehicles, also properly driven. The crux of the problem here, though, is that most SUVs are not properly driven.

Well, he said SUV, not 4wd. I would take a 4wd car over a 4wd SUV for snow safety any day. More mass needs more traction to stop and turn - traction is very limited in the snow - it really boils down to basic physics.

Furthermore, I would rather be in a 2wd car with snow tires over any SUV on regular all seasons. Lower weight and better traction is the way to go IMO.

All things being equal, a completely factory SUV and a factory car, I suppose the SUV would be better simply due to the fact that it has more all terrain tires and the 4wd lets you get out of a jam better. Then again, Marc saw all those SUVs on the side of the road not because they were unable to get out of a situation, but because they didn't have the traction to slow their mass.

I feel like i type this same message once a month cause thats how often this topic seems to come up .

 

[Hawkshot99]

Can you please explain better? I am asking because Petter Solberg and the rest of the WRC organization might disagree with that statement.

Lets keep this to normal vehicles.

Advantages of SUV:
-Ground clearance
-4WD is better than 2WD(If a person would throw snows on their 2WD car, they most likely would put them on their SUV. So tires is not in question here)(Although factory SUV tires are usually better in snow than factory car tires)
-If you do get in a accident, more their to protect you.

 

[ckofer]

I don't know- it seems logical to me that a properly driven 4WD vehicle would, in fact, be better in poor conditions than most other vehicles, also properly driven. The crux of the problem here, though, is that most SUVs are not properly driven.

Wow this could work its way back to the Subaru thread. Low to the ground (but not so low you can't overcome small snowbanks) is a good thing in slippery conditions.

 

[ALLSKIING]

Well, he said SUV, not 4wd. I would take a 4wd car over a 4wd SUV for snow safety any day. More mass needs more traction to stop and turn - traction is very limited in the snow - it really boils down to basic physics.

Not really...SUV made for offroad have things like hill decent that use the engine to brake..ect. Its really not that black and white.

 

[snoseek]

I passed three suv's that bit the dust this morning on berthoud pass. One of them came very close to taking me with them. To be fair there was probably a pretty high concentration of them. I would have stopped to help if the road wasn't so crazy....

 

[koreshot]

Not really...SUV made for offroad have things like hill decent that use the engine to brake..ect. Its really not that black and white.

Wow. Just wow.

Marc, I think you have your answer.

 

[koreshot]

Lets keep this to normal vehicles.

Advantages of SUV:
-Ground clearance
-4WD is better than 2WD(If a person would throw snows on their 2WD car, they most likely would put them on their SUV. So tires is not in question here)(Although factory SUV tires are usually better in snow than factory car tires)
-If you do get in a accident, more their to protect you.

I don't completely disagree with your points. There are some advantages to SUVs, but I don't think that a family sedan on snow tires gives up much in safety to an SUV on snow tires. Multiple publications have done back to back tests with AWD vs. RWD vs. FWD cars to confirm this. Generally speaking 2wd vs 4wd from a purely safety perspective don't differ very much.

Yes 4wd will help you in some situations but the vast majority of snow accidents happen when the driver is doing his darnest to brake in time or make a turn before sliding off the road or intended path. In both of these situations, the critical component is the amount of traction available to guide the car to its intended path/speed. Other factors do play a role, but it seriously boils down to this major thing. No AWD system, no engine braking, no ABS/EBD/CBC/DSC/VSC/ESC is going to save you if you are going too fast. You can't create braking or lateral force out of thin air or electricity. It really is basic physics. You can take the traction that you have and use it better, but if you substantially overcook a braking point or a turn, those mechanical and electronic nannies are just delaying the inevitable.

I am sure Marc, being the mechanical engineer, can do a more clear and scientific analysis of this.

 

[ALLSKIING]

Wow. Just wow.

Marc, I think you have your answer.

Wow?? Do you even get my point? I guess not :roll:

 

[bvibert]

If a person would throw snows on their 2WD car, they most likely would put them on their SUV.

I don't agree with that, most people I know with a 4WD SUV think they don't need snow tires because they have 4WD...

 

[koreshot]

I don't agree with that, most people I know with a 4WD SUV think they don't need snow tires because they have 4WD...

I agree with that. Most people with SUVs and 4wd cars I know think they are "covered" for the winter cause they have 4wd. I have a small 4wd car and a tiny Fwd car and I have snow tires for both. There is no substitute for traction.

 

[bvibert]

I would have snow tires on both our cars (FWD car and 4WD SUV), but we couldn't afford it this year. If I had the choice of only outfitting one car it would be the FWD though since the SUV has pretty aggressive AT tires on it.

I know we just have to take it a little slower when it's snowing (not that I necessarily do.. )

 

[ckofer]

Do we suppose that some of the folks tipping over SUVs wouldn't have even driven in bad weather at all in a "regular" vehicle?