Technical differences between skiing bumps and glades?

[skiNEwhere]

Both trails have bumps, so do you approach each type the same way?

Or does the fact that messing up has more serious repercussions make you approach glades differently?

 

[Tin]

If you ski them differently besides looking at the spaces in between the trees or other obstacles (rock, ledge, etc) you're not skiing bumps correctly in the first place. All about controlling your speed.

 

[mister moose]

While both have bumps,I think there's several substantive differences:

Deeper troughs. On an open slope moguls move uphill. Shavings from people coming over the top give some cover to the troughs. That doesn't happen in glades, The trees don't move. The troughs in front of the trees get bottomed out much more.

Different spacing. Open slope moguls are spaced to the traffic turning pattern. Trees determine the spacing in glades. The rhythym is different.

Loss of control counts. Stating the obvious. Trees hurt.

Reduced speed. Unless you know the run like the back of your hand and can see around the corner, skiing in glades (esp pine vs birch) demands slower speeds than open slope.

More situational awareness. When I ski the woods I keep a constant position report going in my head of the others in the group. No need in the open.

Scraped off faster. Since everyone turns in the same place, it gets skied out faster than places where turns can be more random. More true for main lines than stashes, and more true for tighter trees than more open.

 

[Brad J]

Biggest difference , when skiing bumps , you study the bumps coming up If you look at the trees the same way you will be meeting a lot of trees, look at the path down between the trees

 

[skiNEwhere]

When I'm skiing bumps, I plan and adapt to where I'm going. When I'm in the trees, I can't really see the bumps too far ahead because of the trees, and because I guess my primary goal is to not hit a tree, I'm definitely going slower as well.

I've noticed the backside of troughs in the glades definitely tend to be bigger than strictly bump trails. This makes me go slower because I don't know what's "around the corner" so to speak

All about controlling your speed.

That's probably the hardest thing for me when I'm on hardpacked glades vs hardpacked moguls. Definitely a goal for me this season to try to control speed without having to slow down by traversing or turning completely perpendicular to the slope

 

[Smellytele]

I tend to see them in a similar fashion where the trees are like the tops of the bumps. More like the outside of the inside bump. I ski both in a controlled tele turn and do not ski either at top speed as i see some ski moguls

 

[BenedictGomez]

While both have bumps,I think there's several substantive differences:

Deeper troughs. On an open slope moguls move uphill. Shavings from people coming over the top give some cover to the troughs. That doesn't happen in glades, The trees don't move. The troughs in front of the trees get bottomed out much more.

Different spacing. Open slope moguls are spaced to the traffic turning pattern. Trees determine the spacing in glades. The rhythym is different.

Loss of control counts. Stating the obvious. Trees hurt.

Reduced speed. Unless you know the run like the back of your hand and can see around the corner, skiing in glades (esp pine vs birch) demands slower speeds than open slope.

More situational awareness. When I ski the woods I keep a constant position report going in my head of the others in the group. No need in the open.

Scraped off faster. Since everyone turns in the same place, it gets skied out faster than places where turns can be more random. More true for main lines than stashes, and more true for tighter trees than more open.

Great post

 

[Tin]

Biggest difference , when skiing bumps , you study the bumps coming up If you look at the trees the same way you will be meeting a lot of trees, look at the path down between the trees

Well put.

That's probably the hardest thing for me when I'm on hardpacked glades vs hardpacked moguls. Definitely a goal for me this season to try to control speed without having to slow down by traversing or turning completely perpendicular to the slope

What helped me a ton was playing hockey all my life. If you know how to skate get on them and think about how you can slow yourself at any point by foot positioning and using your edges. Hardpack is hardpack and even the best are going to have to slow down, jump out of their line, or go perpendicular at times. Better to bail then go out of control, especially in the woods.

 

[Savemeasammy]

I generally ski the fall line when skiing bumps in the open - I'm looking for the straightest possible line down the hill. In the trees I completely play it by ear. I start by looking for a line, but of course it is subject to change! In trees I am much more inclined to ski any portion of the bump rather than the bottom/side 1/3 that I ski on a regular trail - that is the biggest difference to me. Both on and off trail, I am always focused a few turns ahead.

Here's what I like best about trees - A: I never have to wait until a tree is out of my line. B: Never has a tree snowplowed in front of me while I was skiing my line!


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[jack97]

That's probably the hardest thing for me when I'm on hardpacked glades vs hardpacked moguls. Definitely a goal for me this season to try to control speed without having to slow down by traversing or turning completely perpendicular to the slope

imo, anyone who own these types of turns can control there descent down. Angulation is due to the knees and not the hips. No uplifting nor up un-weighting in the turn transition. The skis and edge angle is in a position to make a fuller turn. The technique allows for skiing a tight lane.

The guy is f'ing amazing. I don't see alot of skiers using this tech anymore, imo modern skis has something to do with it.

 

[mister moose]

imo, anyone who own these types of turns can control there descent down. Angulation is due to the knees and not the hips. No uplifting nor up un-weighting in the turn transition. The skis and edge angle is in a position to make a fuller turn. The technique allows for skiing a tight lane.

The guy is f'ing amazing. I don't see alot of skiers using this tech anymore, imo modern skis has something to do with it.

#1. I don't think modern skis have anything to do with it.
#2. This guy is using hip angulation as well. It's NOT all about the knees. In my book, anytime the center of mass moves out from over the bindings and the upper body is still upright, you are using hip angulation.
#3. Look at the huge motion of extension and absorbtion even on the flat. You better believe there is some major weighting/unweighting going on.
#4. This guy illustrates what is called "the virtual mogul". From maximum extension in the sharp high G arc of the turn, you keep the upper body mass still and suck your legs up under you and extend them out the other side. It feels like you are bringing them up and over a bump, but there is no bump there. Because your upper body is lower to the snow in the turn, and you keep your upper body at the same elevation, ie there is no head bobbing, your legs must compress and shorten to have the space to slide them across. This is the virtual bump. You are compressing to move your skis across a flat space.

Moral: Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't going on.

 

[steamboat1]

I don't see any bumps or trees in that video. Nice conditions though.

 

[jack97]

#1. I don't think modern skis have anything to do with it.
#2. This guy is using hip angulation as well. It's NOT all about the knees. In my book, anytime the center of mass moves out from over the bindings and the upper body is still upright, you are using hip angulation.

.... when I mean hip angulation, i mean dropping the hip into the turn. The vid below shows alot of that going on. imo, modern skis allows for tipping, rolling of the angles and letting the skis bite into the snow to start the edge engagement. What is a lost technique is loading the front of the ski to start the turn.

#3. Look at the huge motion of extension and absorbtion even on the flat. You better believe there is some major weighting/unweighting going on.
#4. This guy illustrates what is called "the virtual mogul". From maximum extension in the sharp high G arc of the turn, you keep the upper body mass still and suck your legs up under you and extend them out the other side. It feels like you are bringing them up and over a bump, but there is no bump there. Because your upper body is lower to the snow in the turn, and you keep your upper body at the same elevation, ie there is no head bobbing, your legs must compress and shorten to have the space to slide them across. This is the virtual bump. You are compressing to move your skis across a flat space.

yep... the no head bobbing shows berger can be a result of a "down" unweighting or a "up" unweighting during the turn transition. Again, you can see a little bit of the up unweighting going on with some of the skiers in the PSIA vid.

 

[Brad J]

reminds me of my 4s rossi's , soft tip stiff tail, makes me tired just watching.hip and knee angulation work together , can't do that with out both

 

[Hawkshot99]

I love tree skiing but do not like moguls. I can rip through the trees at a decent clip but get very nervouse and ski poor on a open mogul run. Not sure why as trees SHOULD be haeder and intimidating.

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[mriceyman]

I love tree skiing but do not like moguls. I can rip through the trees at a decent clip but get very nervouse and ski poor on a open mogul run. Not sure why as trees SHOULD be haeder and intimidating.

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In the trees you don't know what's coming therefore you must react as your skiing it... In moguls you see exactly what's coming and instead of reacting your looking down mogul and not concentrating on reacting to each hump.. Happens with me

 

[thetrailboss]

Both trails have bumps, so do you approach each type the same way?

Or does the fact that messing up has more serious repercussions make you approach glades differently?

I'm sure that someone has probably already said it, but, theoretically, a true bump line will be formed such that there is a rhythm or equal space between the bumps. Glades that get skied out get bumped up by traffic but I don't consider it to be a "bump" run per se because most of those bumps are the infamous GS kind.

And I agree that there are many more obstacles in the glades...thin spots, rocks, trees, etc.

 

[Cannonball]

In the trees you don't know what's coming therefore you must react as your skiing it... In moguls you see exactly what's coming and instead of reacting your looking down mogul and not concentrating on reacting to each hump.. Happens with me

I disagree. A tree line is all about seeing the line in advance. Whereas moguls may present multiple options when you get there. I will study a tree line (spacing, fall line, traps, tracks, escapes) much, much longer before starting than I would on a bump line. The consequences of misjudging are much greater.

I'm not picking on your comment, it just helped me to articulate what I've been wanting to say in this thread.

One other obvious difference: in the bumps you have the option to blast the top(s). That doesn't play out well in the trees.

 

[Cannonball]

One other thing: I prefer 'skiing' trees on a snowboard, while bumps can be really fun on skis. I actually don't mind either tool for either conditions, but I guess I just feel like I can fit through the tree spaces better sideways.

 

[twinplanx]

I disagree. A tree line is all about seeing the line in advance. Whereas moguls may present multiple options when you get there. I will study a tree line (spacing, fall line, traps, tracks, escapes) much, much longer before starting than I would on a bump line. The consequences of misjudging are much greater.

One other obvious difference: in the bumps you have the option to blast the top(s). That doesn't play out well in the trees.

This, plus I feel like there is less pressure to ski fast in glades. Just about every time I ski a mogul run, some one will come along and screw up any sort of rhythm I my have. I am really just not good at skiing moguls so when someone from above is zippering down I just want to get out of the way. Once in awhile someone will come ripping through the trees from uphill, but getting out of the way is generally easier. Some people might not understand, but I feel generally more relaxed in the trees. Of course all things depend on conditions, so it's a bit like comparing apples to oranges...

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