Valerie Plame, Time, and the NYT

[ctenidae]

Ken Mehlman, chairman of the Republican National Committee, defended Rove against what he dismissed as "blatant partisan political attacks."

:blink:

 

[Stephen]

Ken Mehlman, chairman of the Republican National Committee, defended Rove against what he dismissed as "blatant partisan political attacks."

:blink:

And this surprises you?

 

[JimG.]

Ken Mehlman, chairman of the Republican National Committee, defended Rove against what he dismissed as "blatant partisan political attacks."

:blink:

And this surprises you?

Really! This is politics after all.

Same poo-poo, different color toilet paper.

 

[ctenidae]

From another thread on another board (about monkeys with human brains, no less)

Monkeys throw poo.
Humans have politicians.
What's the difference, anyway?

Overall, I think I'm tired of the centrist attitude. Let's get some radical SOB's in office, so they can duke it out old-school style. Throw John McCaine in the ring with...uhm...there hasn't been a fire-breathing Democrat in so long, I can't think of a good one.

McCaine for President!

 

[Stephen]

Overall, I think I'm tired of the centrist attitude.

McCaine for President!

Huh?

 

[ctenidae]

At least with McCaine, you have the chance of him going buck wild on someone. Can't say that of much of anyone else.

Maybe The Rev Al Sharpton. I bet he could kick some arse if he wanted.

 

[riverc0il]

this is going way off topic, but what the hey. john mccain has more support among democrats than republicans and given the choices during 2000, i would have voted mcain if he won the repub primary, fwiw. there are only a few key issues i disagree with mccain on and i don't think those issues are one's he is willing to rock the boat on the national scene. not sure what you mean about him not being a centrist... he is the closest politican to the center in washington i would contend...

 

[noreaster]

FYI - I just voted NO.

I thought Clinton was a good president. I mean the economy was good, unemployment was down, stock market up, technology geeks were getting rich before the .com bubble burst, we saw some wild .COM adds during the super bowl and, and most important the world did not HATE Americans.

The fact of the matter is Clinton lied and he should have fried for it. Now the Republicans say, "hey if Clinton can lie we can too" or " Clinton did .... so what's the problem". Ok maybe the Republicans didn't say that but that is what they are thinking. Anyway my point is Clinton did a lot of long term harm while in the white house. Clinton took accountability and respect out of the white house. Unfortunately, Bush is doing an excellent job of continuing what Clinton started.

If Rove, Bush, or anyone else in white house did something wrong, they should be held accountable. Just because Clinton got away with something doesn't mean you do whatever you want in the white house. At least that is my humble opinion here.

Personally I want to get away from the whole Clinton and Bush White House era and start OVER. We need some fresh leadership to get this country going again. We got to get past gay marriage, abortion, and the Iraq war issues. There are more important issues.

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else." - Winston Churchill

 

[dmc]

Saw a bumper sticker that said..

"When Clinton lied - nobody died"

Also saw another that look exactly like a Republican party bumper sticker but said Repulsive
instead...

 

[riverc0il]

Personally I want to get away from the whole Clinton and Bush White House era and start OVER.

WELL SAID! nice churchhill quote.

 

[BeanoNYC]

Just because Clinton got away with something doesn't mean you do whatever you want in the white house. At least that is my humble opinion here.

There's a huge difference between lying about a BJ and outing a CIA operative as part of political retribution.

 

[Stephen]

outing a CIA operative

Just to clarify... she was NOT a CIA operative. She was an UNCLASSIFIED administrative employee.

And all this focus on Rove has distracted from WHY her name was mentioned. She ILLEGALLY arranged for a trip for her husband to Africa to investigate the Iraq-uranium link. This violated federal nepotism laws.

Where are all of you who were praising Deep Throat for outing corruption? You said his motives didn't matter, he was still revealing corruption!

The source in this case did the same, and deserves the same praise Felt recieved. Or the same scorn.

-Stephen

 

[pizza]

Stephen,

Please tell me you're not comparing freakin' Watergate to minor nepotism.
Say it isn't so.

Please..

 

[JimG.]

Personally I want to get away from the whole Clinton and Bush White House era and start OVER. We need some fresh leadership to get this country going again. We got to get past gay marriage, abortion, and the Iraq war issues. There are more important issues.

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else." - Winston Churchill

I totally agree with you in this regard.

I don't agree that Clinton started something new by lying...that's been going on for decades.

 

[Stephen]

Stephen,

Please tell me you're not comparing freakin' Watergate to minor nepotism.
Say it isn't so.

Please..

A crime is a crime, unless it's done by a Democrat?

By the way, why is Judith Miller still in jail? She has the same waivers that over half-a-dozen other reporters have recieved? Why is she still refusing to testify?

All the facts aren't out there yet. More to come...

-Stephen

 

[pizza]

A crime is a crime, unless it's done by a Democrat?

Dude.. you're comparing 65 in a 55 to armed robbery! Then you come up with that lame "unless done by a democrat" line?

WTF??

Time to bring in some third party credibility. DMC, care to chime in on my dislike for the democratic party?

 

[dmc]

Time to bring in some third party credibility. DMC, care to chime in on my dislike for the democratic party?

Yup - Pizza hates the BS...
Libertarian tired and true... Memeber of the youth politcal group in CA...

I actually LOVE it when pizza gets involved in these things... Brings an great perspective...

Believe it or not - I tend to lean libertarian on a ton of issues... Not 100% like the pizzaman

 

[pizza]

I used to be a party-line Republican. Used to walk precincts on election day - get out the vote. We'd have an election roster with us, and we'd stop at all the houses with registered Republicans in them, skip the houses with Democrats in them. "Be sure to go out and vote today!!" This was in 1994, when Clinton was wildly unpopular. God I was lame.

Today I am a registered libertarian. I voted libertarian in the presidential elections of 1996, 2000, and 2004, plus most of the intermediate elections in between. Hanging out with a few of the higher-ups & donors of the California Republican Party, I got a whiff (though no direct knowledge) of the kind of corruption that went on. The party's blind obsession with politicians who didn't hold republican values but were registered Republicans anyway (ie Governor Pete Wilson) really pee'd me off. Gradually, I became more libertarian, and when I showed up to a meeting of the Orange County Libertarian party and got involved in their activism, I was hooked. I remember at pre-dawn on tax day hanging signs saying "Dare to not pay" on overpasses. That is when I registered libertarian, and I haven't looked back since.

"The Law" by Frederick Bastiat got me started on the fundamentals and reasons behind libertarian philosophy, and I heartily recommend it to everyone, if just to understand the basis of my reasoning. http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html

 

[ctenidae]

1)- Plame worked for the CIA, in a capacity not publicly known. Particulalry if she was "unclassified", she was undercover. Countries don't like having unregistered spies running around. Trying to claim she wasn't outed illegaly is a diversionary tactic, kind of like Rove's lawyer parsing "name" to mean Rove didn't actually say her name, so not harm done.

2) Wilson was a good choice for the Nigeria mission- he knew the people, the area, and the facts. Plame suggested he go, it was approved, he went. She wasn't the case officer, she didn't get to rack up frequent flyer miles, she didn't recommend him just because he is her husband. THe nepotism charge is silly, and designed to distract from the facts.

3) Outing a CIA officer is much worse than either Watergate or Monicagate, or both combined. Naming Plame puts lives at risk- every one of her former contacts is now going to be under suspicion in their own country, all of her colleague's covers are effectively blown, and the methods and networks of the nation's intelligence has been exposed. That's a violation of about a thousand national security laws.

3) Good question, Stephen- why is Miller still in jail? For that matter, why isn't Novak? There is more to this than meets the eye. For instance, Novak cited two officials. Rove, despite his girth, is only one person. Who was the other? Same person Miller (who didn't even write an article) is protecting?

I think the stink runs high on this whole deal.

 

[riverc0il]

Believe it or not - I tend to lean libertarian on a ton of issues... Not 100% like the pizzaman

i find if you probe people deep enough on the issues and snow them where parties actually stand, most people who normally vote republican or democrat and most people who consider themselves independant actually lean liberatarian or green/progressive.