We're Back!!!! (For Motor Heads)

[NYDrew]

Mustangs Beware, the small blocks are back on the prowl and we're wearing your long lost superiours badge!!!

Camaro fans, sit back, cause she's faster, meaner, and sweeter. The lines go back to the days but the tech is all there. Introducing the New Chevrolet Camaro Concept Car!!!!

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/


(i'm so happy!!! I knew this was going to happen, but my source said 2005, so what if it's a little late and the scrapped the v12, not only that, but as of sunday my camaro is a classic in most states and 5 more years till it is in NY)

 

[skijay]

Some of the new cars (concept & production) shown at the Detroit show were awesome. I liked the Camaro, but I also like the Dodge Challenger.

 

[Marc]

Yeeah, we'll see if the Lutz GM will have the testicular fortitude to put forth something similar to that for production.


I'm glad to see they finally joined the modern era of the late 1960's and put independent rear suspension in it, still waiting on that from the Mustang GT...

I can't see them giving it the same power as the Vette... in the later days of the LS1 SS and TA's they detuned them to below the Vette.

I also have a hard time seeing 21 and 22 inch wheels and 14 inch brake rotors making it to production unless the base price is going to be above 50 grand.


Also, wtf is that on Chevy's website:

Six speed manual transmission with widely spaced ratios for aggressive acceleration and efficient highway cruising

Dumb. This is the kind of hype that I hate about the Cobalt and GM needs to get the F away from. A close ratio transmission is for aggressive acceleration. All you need for 'efficient highway cruising' is a tall overdrive. All the other 'selling points' are similarly moronic.

It is clearly obvious who GM is targeting, and it is not the intelligent enthusiast or consumer. It is the image obsessed. The tech and performance may be real, and kudos to Lutz for that, but please, fire the entire sales and marketing department. I have some other advice too, but the last thing we need around here is a flamewar about UAW.

 

[NYDrew]

When I was a big big motor head and was hanging around the GM Pro-Shop (you know, one of 6 in the country where they sell the 502) I heard and saw that car, almost exactly as it was.

It did however have a 12cyl and AWD. It was supposed to be chevy's answer to the Viper. Following its unveiling, the ailing corvette was going to be phased out making Camaro the new GM flagship. If you think about it, Camaro now represents what corvette did in the beginning. The fastest and the cheapest, and they wanted their flag ship to carry that tradition.

This is only what I heard 5 years ago when the Camaro death rumors were still only rumors. So far though, chevy is sticking with what I've heard except a late 05 unveiling became an early 06 unveiling.

 

[Marc]

We have very, very different perceptions about this topic apparently. It almost seems as though we live on different planets from your last post.

I don't mean to berate you or be rude, becaues it is quite possible you know way more than I ever have from this shop you used to frequent.

But I really have never heard any rumors or anything close to what you're talking about in your last post. Five years ago the Corvette was anything but ailing. In the eyes of the enthusiast, it has had a fine run ever since the unvailing of the ZR1 in '90. Financially speaking, that project was of mediocre success because of the MSRP, but ZR1's are still hot sought after items today.

The model had a brief down turn in '96, if you want to call it that, but they did offer the Grand Sport LT4 so compared to the dark ages of the mid-late 70's to early 80's, it was barely a hiccup. Then in '97 the fifth gens were introduced receiving near across the board praise from car mags and independent testers. In '01 the Z06 was introduce and once again received high, high praise for the performance per dollar ratio it offered, and its performance period.

All the while the F bodies were losing sales, and losing their following (in the eyes of GM beancounters anyway) to the Mustang and a new slew of import sedans. There was nothing wrong with the combination of power and price if you like a fairly heavy, big V8 and a solid rear axle, but it had an image problem when compared with the Mustang. It still had an aftermarket following as does and SBC car but they just couldn't sell enough.

And now you're saying all the while the plan was to reimage this and replace the Corvette, their fundamental sports car, with the Camaro, their fundamental muscle car (I mean aside from the early GTO's, that was the first true muscle car of course, call the 'Maro a pony car if you like).

And you still say this with the success of the 6th gen Vette's and the unbelievable numbers, praise, and following of the new Z06? Not to mention the HUGE following the marquee itself has, and the history, the collectors, the press from the auctions and rumors of the Blue Devil going into limited production and even early rumors of the 7th gen?

I just don't see it, and have never heard a shred of a rumor in the direction you're going.

Like I said, I'm not trying to berate you or your information, but this is like, from way out in left field from my home plate...

 

[Marc]

I also have never seen GM looking for "an answer" to the Viper either. They never really cared to compete in such a limited market. They were happy with the unique niche the Corvette carved out for itself and it was profitable.

Even the new Z06, which is comparable to the Viper in terms of performance, still does not appear to be aimed toward the elite, super rare exotic market segment, though it may perform similar to an exotic like the Viper any handful of Germans or Italians. If any answer to anything they are going for, it is with the Blue Devil to compete with the Ford GT, but who knows what they really plan to do there, if anything.

 

[NYDrew]

I felt exactly the same way...NO WAY...but with a car that looks the same and within monthes of the rumored dates, I'm retrospectively starting to believe.

We're on the same plane for the most part. I could be buying into a lot of crap just because I have always preferred camaro's over corvettes. Car discussions, especially when it comes to rumors have a lot of emotion that needs to be factored in. For all you know, when I heard the rumors, I could have only heard what I wanted to hear, just like (you seem to prefere corvettes) you might have ignored them completely. 5 Years later, we'll never know, but there is no offence taken.

In the end, we do share the same goal, as do the mustangs...being ridiculously faster then the kid with the honda and coffee can exhaust.

 

[ALLSKIING]

Mustangs Beware

No match for this beast.

 

[Marc]

Since you brought it up ALLSKIING, I'd much rather show up to the drop off by the base lodge (in time for a days skiing) in this:

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=29&article_id=9642

 

[ALLSKIING]

Since you brought it up ALLSKIING, I'd much rather show up to the drop off by the base lodge (in time for a days skiing) in this.

LOL...That Saleen would not even make it close to the hill.

 

[Marc]

Heh, indeed, hence the caveat in parentheses.

 

[ALLSKIING]

My Brother just bought the new A4 3.2..Now its not the RS4 but its still a nice car.

 

[Marc]

Yes, Audi has been doing a lot to improve their poor reliability in the past couple years as well. Of course they have always had stellar build quality, but they used to skimp in small areas. They really have their act together.




I need to get inside with somone in an Audi dealer so I can drive or at least ride in an RS4 when they come here in the Spring.

I ask you, who wouldn't love a panty dropping 440 hp 4.2 L quad cam V8 that revs up to 8250 rpm??

Gah.

 

[ALLSKIING]

I ask you, who wouldn't love a panty dropping 440 hp 4.2 L quad cam V8 that revs up to 8250 rpm??

Gah.

Absolutely..but I would trade it for a ride in a Supercharged 4.6 SOHC V8 550bhp and 650bhp with N2O. Saleen.

 

[smitty77]

Don't worry, Chevy will do something to F-it-up. They always do. If they built the SSR into a tuner car (read 4-cyl w/ turbo and no drop top or fancy do-dads) instead of a baby-boomer unattainomobile, they would have sold lots more. They took a great concept and sh_t all over it. Who at GM ever thought they would get lots of customers for a $40k+ vehicle that only seats 2 and can't even get out of it's own way?

 

[Marc]

Ehh, I don't know if I see or ever saw the SSR as a 'tuner' type car. I mean, they certainly could produce a broader aftermarket with forced induction, but a supercharged 6 or 8 would seem to match that truck image a little better.

I mean, let's face it, name a really outstanding four cylinder truck.

Perhaps a powerplant like from the Cyclone... an acceleration oriented turbo gas job.

But the image and model problems that plague Chevy and GM are so complex and deep rooted, it is almost useless to have a passing conversation about any of it any more.