Pedro Martinez controversy

[deadheadskier]

What are your feelings concerning Pedro's involvement in cock fightening in the Domican Republic where it is legal and widely popular?


The Humane Society is outraged (I agree) and is demanding an apology from Pedro and for him to condemn the 'sport'

Others say that americans have no right to judge what is legal and culturally accepted in other countries.



What say you?

 

[bigbog]

...

fwiw....I'll throw in my vote of agreement deadheadskier.:-D

 

[deadheadskier]

You make a lot of good points uphillkimber. I still personally feel that if I was the owner of the Mets, I should be able to reserve the right to terminate a relationship with an employee for participating in behaviors that are illegal in this country, even if the acts are committed abroad where such activiities are legal and are an accepted way of life.

By your logic, had Michael Vick committed the acts he did outside of the US, then he should've been allowed to be the starting QB for the Atlanta Falcons this past season correct?

As far as the comment concerning pot and Amsterdam, I know that the majority of the companies I have worked for would not tolerate such behavior even if where I did it was legal.

The world of profesional sports is becoming more and more culturally diverse all the time. You mentioned some culture's treatment of women that differs from here. In some places its far worse than what you outlined. In some places it's perfectly acceptable for men to beat their wives. What happens someday when there's an athlete from that part of the world and its known that he commits these acts over there? Is that okay? If you were a team owner or even a fan, would you want such a player on your roster?

My feeling is this. If you are going to accept a position at a company, whether it's a sports team or anything else, you have to also accept that while employed for that company, you will not commit acts abroad that would be considered a crime in the US. A job, any job, is a privilege, not a birth right. Pedro's actions, even though legal and part of life in the Dominican, will tarnish the image of the Mets organization in some peoples eyes if the Mets don't say a word and allow such behavior to continue.

If attending 'cock fights' is so important to Pedro, then he can live in the Dominican and get a job as a profesional baseball player there.

The saying is, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" well if you make your living in "Rome" and spend 90% of your time in "Rome" you need to behave like a "Roman", even when you're not there.

 

[riverc0il]

The saying is, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" well if you make your living in "Rome" and spend 90% of your time in "Rome" you need to behave like a "Roman", even when you're not there.

The problem with that point of view is that Pedro was not in Rome at the time of the incident. Playing off uphillklimber's points, that would mean women visiting Europe from the United States should not sun bath topless where allowed because it is considered indecent in the United States. Obviously not the same level of offense, but I do not think you can apply a percentage of when you should do as in Rome when you are not actually in Rome, that is a slippery slope.

Personally, I think having animals fight for enjoyment is below acceptable norms for civilized society. But again, uphillklimber makes good points about culture. What is civilized here is different elsewhere. Considering the Vick media attention, Pedro should have known better even if it is accepted culturally in his native country.

There are good points on both sides. I hope the media and the fans give it to Pedro good. Just because no crime was committed here in the States does not mean that Pedro can escape without facing the music. A quick apology and some community service in the form of a public service message or some sort would go a long way in down playing the media spectacle that is about to ensue. If Pedro does not apologize and plays it tough, then he is going to get what is coming to him. Mets will have to make some decisions about performance versus public relations when evaluating contract issues.

 

[deadheadskier]

It is indeed a slippery slope. I'm certainly not arguing that legal action should be brought against Pedro, it can't.

That said, if I was the owner of the Mets, I'd condemn the behavior and would do whatever I could to terminate the relationship I had with Pedro. I would do so for two reasons. Number one is that morally I find such activities disgusting and support why they are illegal in the US. I think someone can be sensitive to cultural differences of other ways of life, but that doesn't mean they have to agree with such differences. The second reason is an economic one. There are fans/customers out there who will also be disgusted by such behavior in will no longer support the business/Mets organization should it continue to employ Pedro.

As for your point river about Pedro not being in Rome, I think my point was somewhat lost on you. I know Pedro wasn't in Rome when he committed the incident. My point was that he gets paid tens of millions of dollars a year working for a US company. He works in Rome, lives in Rome and should follow the rules of Rome, even when not in Rome.

I'll go back to the pot example. If I were to go to Amsterdam and take pictures of myself at a has bar and post them on a myspace account and my company were to see them, I'd be out of a job in heart beat. Even if I said, what I did was legal and I participated because I'm rastafarian (I'm not, but let's say I am for arguements sake)...my company would say get lost.

 

[kickstand]

you guys are comparing Pedro Martinez to Michael Vick. Is that really a realistic comparison? In the video that I could find about Pedro, he's sort of running around in the ring holding a rooster. There's no doubt that the roosters fought, but is there any proof that Pedro has a cockfighting operation - breeding, training, betting - in the Dominican? Even if he did, it's LEGAL in the Dominican. What Michael Vick did was ILLEGAL in the United States. If Michael Vick had simply attended a dog fight, sure he would've been ripped in the media, but he would not be in jail. Goodell may have suspended Vick, as well, but it would be nothing compared to what he's facing now.

Will Pedro get ripped by the media and fans? Sure. What he did is not accepted culturally here. Does he deserve the criticism? I guess it depends on your point of view. Can Mets ownership try and terminate his contract? Unless it's specifically written in the contract he cannot attend cockfights, they don't have a leg to stand on. The PA will rip the case to bits.

But with Pedro's recent history, he'll probably only pitch a few games for them and he won't get resigned next year anyway. So, all you people who want him off the team, just wait until October 1.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

you guys are comparing Pedro Martinez to Michael Vick. Is that really a realistic comparison? In the video that I could find about Pedro, he's sort of running around in the ring holding a rooster. There's no doubt that the roosters fought, but is there any proof that Pedro has a cockfighting operation - breeding, training, betting - in the Dominican? Even if he did, it's LEGAL in the Dominican. What Michael Vick did was ILLEGAL in the United States. If Michael Vick had simply attended a dog fight, sure he would've been ripped in the media, but he would not be in jail. Goodell may have suspended Vick, as well, but it would be nothing compared to what he's facing now.

Will Pedro get ripped by the media and fans? Sure. What he did is not accepted culturally here. Does he deserve the criticism? I guess it depends on your point of view. Can Mets ownership try and terminate his contract? Unless it's specifically written in the contract he cannot attend cockfights, they don't have a leg to stand on. The PA will rip the case to bits.

But with Pedro's recent history, he'll probably only pitch a few games for them and he won't get resigned next year anyway. So, all you people who want him off the team, just wait until October 1.

All good points.....

 

[Brettski]

Others say that americans have no right to judge what is legal and culturally accepted in other countries.

Aren't we involved in enough places around the world already?

We are not the Police of the world...NATO sure ain't ponying up to do anything anymore

Just think of all the money that would be invested in the US instead

And the topless thing...well, I think it should be left up to the women

 

[ctenidae]

Who?

 

[Paul]

Who?

Say hello to my leeeel frien'

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Another trip down memory lane....

 

[FRITOLAYGUY]

Everyone on here keeps saying its his home countries fault and their tradition, do any of your even realize that its still legal in this country to do this, at least until June when the new law sets in it is still legal to have cockfights in the entire state of Louisiana, so what does that make us? And he dropped the bird as a type of celebrity, its like when they have an ex player celebrity go out for the ceremonial cointoss for the superbowl, its an honor geesh take at easy.

 

[JimG.]

I always said I'd pay to watch hunting if the animals got to shoot back.

I'm no animal rights person...but pitting one dumb animal against another is crappy to do.

That said, what else can you expect from a species that generally loves violence and in fact glamorizes it.

I can't get mad at Pedro...he stood there and got video taken of himself. If you're that offended make sure you don't watch any more violence on TV.

 

[Superbman]

I can't get mad at Pedro because I'm an inveterate eater of chickens. I got to figure over the course of my 38 years of eating-I'm eaten most or part of at least 1000 chickens (maybe more). I would have to guess less than 1% or 1% of those were of the free range variety.

From what I hear, the life of your average 'to be eaten' chicken is pretty grim, and probably worse than the 'fightin' Chicken' (I know-they're roosters).

I just can't get worked up over this-Cock fighting is certainly unsavory (well, at least until they cook up the losers), but please, we're talking chickens here-maybe if Pedro was involved in promoting death matches between two Bengal tigers i'd get my dander up-but not chickens in the Dominican republic.

I hope Pedro makes apologies to nobody-I'm tired of folks cow-towing to these public pressure busybody self-righteous groups.

Pedro ought to say he'll apologize when Colonel Sanders gives up his commission.
:flame:

 

[jack97]

I hope Pedro makes apologies to nobody-I'm tired of folks cow-towing to these public pressure busybody self-righteous groups.

I agree..... it's legal in his country, so be it. I consider it arrogant on our part to instill USA morals and political correctness onto another sovereign country. If and when we do, we better do it for a good reason.

BTW, after what I heard and seen done to calfs, I don't eat veal, haven't for over 15 years.

 

[BeanoNYC]

I got to figure over the course of my 38 years of eating-I'm eaten most or part of at least 1000 chickens (maybe more). I would have to guess less than 1% or 1% of those were of the free range variety.

That has got to be the best post I've ever seen in my life!

Vegetarian and Yankee fan weighing in here. I don't like Pedro one bit. I think he's a scumbag of the highest order. I also like chickens, I think they're pretty cool animals.

In the D.R., cock fighting is legal and he has every right to participate in the ceremonial "drop."

In the U.S., we, and his employers, have every right to piss and moan about his actions in the D.R. For every action there is a consequence.

Piss off Pedro. One day you'll do something stupid in the U.S. and end up in jail. It is then that you'll be involved in a cock fight of the highest order.

 

[jack97]

In the US, about a million chickens are slaughter every hour. Other countries can easily criticize our abundance in over consumption.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

I agree..... it's legal in his country, so be it. I consider it arrogant on our part to instill USA morals and political correctness onto another sovereign country. If and when we do, we better do it for a good reason.

BTW, after what I heard and seen done to calfs, I don't eat veal, haven't for over 15 years.

How is this a question of "USA morals" and "political correctness"?

Two animals butchering themselves for someone's amusement isn't something we as Americans can criticize, isn't something we as sports fans can expect the people we pay to watch not to do and isn't something we as parents can expect public figures not to do in front of our children?

I'm a Yankee fan, so I'm obviously enjoying this whole controversy. But, unlike Bean-o, I don't hate Pedro. I know we owned the punk by the end....

 

[jack97]

How is this a question of "USA morals" and "political correctness"?

In the context of the first post.

The Humane Society is outraged (I agree) and is demanding an apology from Pedro and for him to condemn the 'sport'

Pedro does not need to apologize for doing something that is legal and culturally acceptable in his country. However, if he does in this the US, its another matter.

In terms of explaining this children, there are plenty of examples where laws and cultures of other countries are so foreign to us that it is sometime unacceptable from our point of view. IMO, understanding that there differences and how they came to be is the first step.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

OK, well, I think one thing we can all agree on is that Chicken McNuggets are delicious. I prefer mine with sweet 'n sour sauce.