Sugarloaf Announces Terrain Expansion to Burnt Mountain and 10-year Development Plan

[snowmonster]

that'd make a cool AZ gathering though, don't you think???

Indeed. When we had the AZ Summit at Sugarbush 2 years ago, I was hoping to duck into Slidebrook but there were no takers. Perhaps, this is the year for the tour.

More interestingly, when I was looking up acreage of VT ski areas in particular, I happened to find what appear to be recently bloated snowfall totals.
These I found to be particularly strange:
Smuggler's Notch: 347 up from roughly 280
Stowe: 333 up from roughly 260
Burke: 218 down from roughly 250
Bolton: 312 up from roughly 300
Jay: 366 roughly stagnant

NH and Maine areas like Bretton Woods, Cannon, Wildcat, Attitash, Sunday River and Sugarloaf have grown slightly (10 to 20 inches tops) in the past 5ish years.

... What's the deal with Smuggs and Stowe? It looks like they think they can just one up each other when reporting average annual snowfall with a ceiling at whatever Jay claims. Am I missing something, or is this its own marketing joke that nobody has been talking about?

Ah, the annual debate on snowfall totals will probably start early this year. =)

 

[Tin Woodsman]

More interestingly, when I was looking up acreage of VT ski areas in particular, I happened to find what appear to be recently bloated snowfall totals.
These I found to be particularly strange:
Smuggler's Notch: 347 up from roughly 280
Stowe: 333 up from roughly 260
Burke: 218 down from roughly 250
Bolton: 312 up from roughly 300
Jay: 366 roughly stagnant

NH and Maine areas like Bretton Woods, Cannon, Wildcat, Attitash, Sunday River and Sugarloaf have grown slightly (10 to 20 inches tops) in the past 5ish years.

... What's the deal with Smuggs and Stowe? It looks like they think they can just one up each other when reporting average annual snowfall with a ceiling at whatever Jay claims. Am I missing something, or is this its own marketing joke that nobody has been talking about?

Actually, I think Stowe and Smuggs totals are simply moving to reflect reality. I never understood why Stowe stuck with 260" when it's been clear for a long time that they receive dramatically more snow than their competitors to the South of I-89. Even the totals at the Mansfield Stake, which only measures once every 24 hours and therefore suffers from under-reporting due to compaction, melting, and wind, has the long-term average at 233". Considering known compaction rates for the density of snow received in VT, along with melting from sun and rain, there's no way Stowe receives anything less than 300".

If you look at it North to South, the resorts along the spine fall into four distinct snowfall zones:

1) Jay - truly in a class by itself up at 340-350"

2) Stowe, Smuggs, Bolton - coming in at 310-330" or so.

3) MRG, SB, K-Mart - generally around 250-275" with the higher end of that range in the MRV

4) Everyone else - ranges from 160" at Bromley, Magic and Mt. Snow up to 200" at Okemo

The resorts off the Spine, really just Burke and Ascutney (RIP), get significantly less for their given latitude.

 

[Newpylong]

Can you provide anything that shows that either Stowe or Smuggs consistantly gets over 300 inches? I don't believe they would...

Actually, I think Stowe and Smuggs totals are simply moving to reflect reality. I never understood why Stowe stuck with 260" when it's been clear for a long time that they receive dramatically more snow than their competitors to the South of I-89. Even the totals at the Mansfield Stake, which only measures once every 24 hours and therefore suffers from under-reporting due to compaction, melting, and wind, has the long-term average at 233". Considering known compaction rates for the density of snow received in VT, along with melting from sun and rain, there's no way Stowe receives anything less than 300".

If you look at it North to South, the resorts along the spine fall into four distinct snowfall zones:

1) Jay - truly in a class by itself up at 340-350"

2) Stowe, Smuggs, Bolton - coming in at 310-330" or so.

3) MRG, SB, K-Mart - generally around 250-275" with the higher end of that range in the MRV

4) Everyone else - ranges from 160" at Bromley, Magic and Mt. Snow up to 200" at Okemo

The resorts off the Spine, really just Burke and Ascutney (RIP), get significantly less for their given latitude.

 

[riverc0il]

I decided to check some posted acreage totals to find the 5 largest ski areas in the east. Here's what I found:

1) Killington 752
2) Sunday River 668
3) Tremblant 654
4) Sugarloaf 651
5) Okemo 632

*Smuggler's Notch reports 1000 acres, which includes boundary to boundary. Last time they disclosed their developed acreage, it was roughly 310.

More interestingly, when I was looking up acreage of VT ski areas in particular, I happened to find what appear to be recently bloated snowfall totals.
These I found to be particularly strange:
Smuggler's Notch: 347 up from roughly 280
Stowe: 333 up from roughly 260
Burke: 218 down from roughly 250
Bolton: 312 up from roughly 300
Jay: 366 roughly stagnant

NH and Maine areas like Bretton Woods, Cannon, Wildcat, Attitash, Sunday River and Sugarloaf have grown slightly (10 to 20 inches tops) in the past 5ish years.

... What's the deal with Smuggs and Stowe? It looks like they think they can just one up each other when reporting average annual snowfall with a ceiling at whatever Jay claims. Am I missing something, or is this its own marketing joke that nobody has been talking about?

NH areas in the past five years have had a few above average years and one for the record books (Cannon's second snowiest on record, IIRC). No surprise NH areas are increasing their average for the last five years (which is why 5 year averages are total crap). Smuggs at 280 and Stowe at 260 is unrealistically LOW. I know there is an issue with Stowe reporting due to the way they measure at the stake (read up on that at FTO. basically, they read late in the day after afternoon solar compaction and they don't practice standard measurement practices). Not sure why Smuggs is so low. But their updated numbers look legit, IMO. Burke at just over 200 sounds about right. No way 250", not sure where that number ever came from.

 

[riverc0il]

Can you provide anything that shows that either Stowe or Smuggs consistantly gets over 300 inches? I don't believe they would...

http://www.famousinternetskiers.com/

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Can you provide anything that shows that either Stowe or Smuggs consistantly gets over 300 inches? I don't believe they would...

That UVM stake on Mansfield is all the evidence I need. You don't get to 230" annual average when measurements are taken once every 24 hours if you're not receiving well in excess of 300" when measured correctly. This is especially the case at Stowe, where a large % of their total snowfall is derived form upslope events where the snow comes in at 5-6% water. Just like with lake effect, you get significant compaction within hours of it first falling. If you were to use the NWS standard of one measurement every 6 hours, you'd see the averages reported by Stowe and Smuggs. Also, it's worth nothing that there are now a few new reporting stations, one at the base of Bolton and one at the base of Stowe. Though it would be helpful to have something higher up on the hill, I'll be shocked if we don't see totals in the low 200--240" range from those locations. Even at the modest elevation of 495' down in the Winooski valley, Jay Silveira has documented an average of 166" over the last 4 seasons. It is not at all unreasonable to see that number being doubled 3000' up in the mountains.

 

[AdironRider]

I dont think Im buying that Stowe is getting Utah/Wyoming level blower, but I will agree they get some of the best on the East coast.

 

[riverc0il]

I dont think Im buying that Stowe is getting Utah/Wyoming level blower, but I will agree they get some of the best on the East coast.

Water content of the snow that falls on New England is surely higher than out west 9 storms out of 10. Pretty rare to get 3' of blow, even for Mansfield. I think places like Mansfield and Jay would be more comparable to some western areas if not for two things: the massive wind that always follows storms and the rain/thaw cycles we get in New England.

The quantity of total snow is not exaggerated in the slightest. Folks can keep crying foul on the snow totals. Myself and others will keep racking up the deep days. Its okay that folks don't believe the NoVT hype. More for me.

 

[AdironRider]

Coming from Whiteface and Cannon, which both average in the low 200's, I definitely believe Stowe at 300+. Was always amazed at the snow levels there.

And when the Mansfield stake is showing an 80 inch base with less than 300 on the season, you know theyre getting way higher than 5%, especially with rain events and thaws.

 

[Newpylong]

http://www.famousinternetskiers.com/

Cool website but what am I looking for?

 

[gpetrics]

Cool website but what am I looking for?

Hey newpylong. I run FIS. I'm not going to tell you that Stowe always gets 300 inches. But I will encourag you to check our VTah series to see the area at it's deepest. Http://www.famousinternetskiers.com/tag/vtah/

Obviously we hit it at it's best for that series. Hard to say where is better on average though. I've had deeper at Stowe. But the loaf seems to be powdery more often and also stays fresh longer. Who knows

Hope you find some fun stuff on FIS!

 

[thetrailboss]

Isn't this thread about Sugarloaf? Why are we talking about Stowe?

Back to the topic at hand:

 

[wa-loaf]

If you have any of these stickers kicking around, they'll probably be collectible soon. My last one went on the car. Kinda wish I had held onto it.

 

[deadheadskier]

Couldn't you just get one made?

They shouldn't have changed the name IMO

 

[jerryg]

Couldn't you just get one made?

They shouldn't have changed the name IMO

+1

 

[wa-loaf]

Couldn't you just get one made?

I guess, not the same though.

They shouldn't have changed the name IMO

Didn't get why that was necessary.

 

[Newpylong]

I didn't even know they dropped the /USA from the name!

 

[thetrailboss]

If you have any of these stickers kicking around, they'll probably be collectible soon. My last one went on the car. Kinda wish I had held onto it.

FWIW the Sugarloafer Shop was trying to get rid of theirs last year and the Mrs. and I stocked up. I'm sorry, but it will always be Sugarloaf USA in my mind!

 

[snowmonster]

Isn't this thread about Sugarloaf? Why are we talking about Stowe?

Back to the topic at hand:

I miss the remnants of the old gondola mid-station. I know it was an eyesore and probably even dangerous. But, I miss it like an old girlfriend.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

I dont think Im buying that Stowe is getting Utah/Wyoming level blower, but I will agree they get some of the best on the East coast.

Definitely doesn't get Utah level blower consistently, but what separates the 4 Green Mtn spine areas (Jay, Stowe, Smuggs, Bolton) bnorth if I-89 from everyone else in the East from an annual snowfall perspective is the frequency and intensity of those upslope events. Those events typically have a much lower water content than your standard coastal systems b/c they generally work with scant moisture that is squeezed out of the atmosphere by the uplift from climbing over the 3000-4000' wall of the Greens. It's a very similar dynamic to that which exists on the Wasatch front and places like Targhee, which I'm sure you're familiar with.

Obviously you get coastals and mixed precip events that increase the average water content across the whole season, but that extra 60-80" is pretty much all Champlain Powder - pure fluff.