Attn. Killington, Chris Danforth, Marketing Manager - RE: SPRING SKIING

Nick · Mar 7, 2012

Highway Star said:
Nick, your thoughtful moderation "keeps the bar hgh".

:razz:

Ski the Moguls · Mar 7, 2012

2knees said:
You didnt answer any question. It was simple. You said k will lose money because they are closing bear "early". early meaning basically the same time as at least the last 4 or 5 years. I have no idea where you are coming up with this statement. Nothing is changing, especially not this topic which has been discussed ad nauseam the last 5 years. I realize you need to "keep it simple on alpinezone" as you stated elsewhere but it seems to me your argument is based on emotion, personal ideaology and flat out guessing. You should be asking what the upside to keeping bear open would be, not the downside since they've been following this model for a few years now. Are you surprised bear is closing april 1 this year? It's how they have been running this since they got there.

My guess is you will renew as will HS and many others and next year we will be seeing these same threads all over again. That's keeping it simple.

The reason why I make so many more posts over on KillingtonZone rather than here on AlpineZone is twofold. First, I bought season passes for the family at Killington this year and there is a lot more Killington specific information over there. Second, I find that the level of personal attacks is far greater here on AlpineZone. It seems that I cannot give my opinion about something without getting replies questioning my experience, or skiing ability, or what not. I was talking about the Bear area at Killington, not a post I made on another forum, and not about where I will choose to buy season passes next year.

It is very complimentary when 2knees and HighwayStar choose to share my posts between the 2 forums. At least someone is reading them! If you want to know the "elsewhere" that 2knees is referring to you can follow this link:
http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34430&start=0
There you will also find a couple of my follow up posts when some of those members questioned my words (and not my experience, nor my spending habits).

And please note, 2knees, that I have not asked you anything about your personal skiing habits, nor have I asked Oakapple. They simply are not relevant to this discussion.

threecy · Mar 7, 2012

Highway Star said:
I firmly believe that if Killington kept Bear open until mid-late april, even on the weekends only, they would see greatly increased skier visits, revenue and profits, due to competing more strongly with other resorts.

Can you quanitfy this?

Ski the Moguls · Mar 7, 2012

threecy said:
Can you quanitfy this?

May I, HS?

Threecy, can you quantify that his statement is wrong? Of course not. There are far too many variables - weather, economy, timing of school and public holidays, etc. - to be able to quantify this one way or the other. But let me ask these two questions:

What was the most successful ski area, by far, in terms of skier visits, that has ever existed here in the East?
-and-
What was their operating model?

Geoff · Mar 7, 2012

dangah said:
We understand that there a lot of folks who are passionate about the BMMC and realize that people will continue to question our motives for ending the event. All we can do is try to clearly explain the situation we were faced with and the decision we made.

Here is our explanation:

"The Bear Mountain Mogul Challenge has come to an end. It was an awesome event and we had some epic times. However, the last few years of the BMMC became tame due to the "no BYOB" policy. Unfortunately, guests bringing their own alcohol onto property we own and lease led to a substantial number of VT liquor law violations (mainly the sharing or selling of alcohol by the public). Enforcement by the VT Department of Liquor Control increased significantly and ultimately "BYOB" created a liability too great for the resort to take on. With the lack of attendance and enthusiasm for the tamer version of the BMMC, the resort decided to develop the Nor'Beaster. This new event will have various venues and activities, (including the Freestyle Frenzy) spread out over a 10-day period that will be a great spring tonic for The Beast and its guests."

As stated in our post and reinforced by the Vermont Department of Liquor Control's quotes in 2008, the decision on BYOB was made due to the increased liability to the resort. This may be the reason why no competing resorts in Vermont promote a large-scale BYOB event.

...but you can hold a moe. event in the exact same spot where the fine young barbarians all had an open container in their hand and were puffing away on marijuana. Puh-leeze.

The original purpose of the Bear Mountain Mogul Challenge was to promote and market spring skiing at Killington. Every weekend a party. Put off your yard work and launching the boat until after Memorial Day because it's way more fun to be out skiing mush bumps in the sunshine. Since the bean counters and Excel Spreadsheet mountain operations types have no interest in the April/May business at the resort, there is no point in hosting the event.

threecy · Mar 7, 2012

Ski the Moguls said:
May I, HS?

Threecy, can you quantify that his statement is wrong? Of course not. There are far too many variables - weather, economy, timing of school and public holidays, etc. - to be able to quantify this one way or the other.

I'm not making the statement that Killington would see significant skier visits if Bear was kept open after April 1, so I don't see why I need to quantify it.

Highway Star · Mar 7, 2012

threecy said:
I'm not making the statement that Killington would see significant skier visits if Bear was kept open after April 1, so I don't see why I need to quantify it.

Well, since I don't feel the need to quantify it, why don't you go ahead and quantify it for us?

2knees · Mar 7, 2012

Ski the Moguls said:
The reason why I make so many more posts over on KillingtonZone rather than here on AlpineZone is twofold. First, I bought season passes for the family at Killington this year and there is a lot more Killington specific information over there. Second, I find that the level of personal attacks is far greater here on AlpineZone. It seems that I cannot give my opinion about something without getting replies questioning my experience, or skiing ability, or what not. I was talking about the Bear area at Killington, not a post I made on another forum, and not about where I will choose to buy season passes next year.

It is very complimentary when 2knees and HighwayStar choose to share my posts between the 2 forums. At least someone is reading them! If you want to know the "elsewhere" that 2knees is referring to you can follow this link:
http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34430&start=0
There you will also find a couple of my follow up posts when some of those members questioned my words (and not my experience, nor my spending habits).

And please note, 2knees, that I have not asked you anything about your personal skiing habits, nor have I asked Oakapple. They simply are not relevant to this discussion.

I got a bag full of wtf's for this post.

wtf are you telling me where you post for? i neither care nor is it relevant.

I read that post on kzone and it made me laugh. Like wtf, you have to dumb it down for people who don't spend every weekend at killington

Wtf are you talking about in regards to your skiing ability or expierence? Nothing I posted even remotely broached the subject of your ability. Wtf does that even have to do with it? I said these topics have been discussed ad nauseaum for years, not "you suck at skiing"... that's a double wtf. I couldnt care less how well or how poorly you ski. has no bearing on anything.

One more WTF. I have no real interest in your spending habits, how much you make or what you do with your money. Having read enough killington threads on these boards over the years leads me to the conclusion that you probably will, like most other k regulars, voice your complaints but plunk down the $'s next year on another pass. If that is too personal for you, I suggest a thicker coat of skin.

Ski the Moguls · Mar 7, 2012

2knees said:
I got a bag full of wtf's for this post.

wtf are you telling me where you post for? i neither care nor is it relevant.

I read that post on kzone and it made me laugh. Like wtf, you have to dumb it down for people who don't spend every weekend at killington

Wtf are you talking about in regards to your skiing ability or expierence? Nothing I posted even remotely broached the subject of your ability. Wtf does that even have to do with it? I said these topics have been discussed ad nauseaum for years, not "you suck at skiing"... that's a double wtf. I couldnt care less how well or how poorly you ski. has no bearing on anything.

One more WTF. I have no interest in your spending habits, how much you make or what you do with your money. Having read enough killington threads on these boards over the years leads me to the conclusion that you probably will, like most other k regulars, voice your complaints but plunk down the $'s next year on another pass. If that is too personal for you, I suggest a thicker coat of skin.

I know I never asked you to, but thank you for proving my point just the same.

ski_resort_observer · Mar 7, 2012

On keeping Bear open.....increased skier visits, probably, increased revenue, probably, increased profits, debatable. The spring recreation cycle in the Boston and the NYC areas is starting much earlier than normal years. It's going to be harder to get people to come up. If the skier increases by having Bear open longer are marginal than Powdr made the right choice. If the increase is good without harming the other base areas than I guess you would be right. Too bad we will never know. :smile:

Highway Star · Mar 8, 2012

Killington - Twitter users - holler @powdrjdc (John Cumming of POWDR)

Tell him how you feel about BMMC and early closing dates. Send him links to K-zone or alpine zone.

Go!

(Note to Nick - can you please leave this ase a separate thread? Thanks!)

Highway Star · Mar 8, 2012

How about twittering to John Cumming of POWDR......

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?p=700310

gmcunni · Mar 8, 2012

@Mr. Cummings, as a shareholder I appreciate your fiscal responsibility. i understand and support your decision to close early. Keep up the good work.

drjeff · Mar 8, 2012

How long until some of the admins at K take out a restraining order against HS??

bobbutts · Mar 8, 2012

gmcunni said:
@Mr. Cummings, as a shareholder I appreciate your fiscal responsibility. i understand and support your decision to close early. Keep up the good work.

@Mr. Cummings
I only ski at a bunny slope in ct. It makes actual skiers upset when you close, and since I hate my own life and enjoy bothering other people, I'll pretend to support things you do and even pretend I have financial interest in it, even though that's a lie. Hopefully the other people on the internet will think I'm cool.

Ski the Moguls · Mar 8, 2012

drjeff said:
How long until some of the admins at K take out a restraining order against HS??

No, Killington should just buy him a season pass to Stowe. Much easier.

Seriously though, HS, you know I support this cause, but you can see how excessive posting can turn even otherwise sane skiers against it. I mean, what skier would not want any mountain to stay open longer, and with more terrain?

skiadikt · Mar 8, 2012

ski_resort_observer said:
On keeping Bear open.....increased skier visits, probably, increased revenue, probably, increased profits, debatable. The spring recreation cycle in the Boston and the NYC areas is starting much earlier than normal years. It's going to be harder to get people to come up. If the skier increases by having Bear open longer are marginal than Powdr made the right choice. If the increase is good without harming the other base areas than I guess you would be right. Too bad we will never know. :smile:

agree it's something we'll never know ... last season the final weekend for both bear (bmmc) & ramshead was april 2-3. weather wise it was a great weekend and on the saturday both lots were full and sunday they were 2/3-3/4 full. both were closed the following weekend when they still had enough snow to be open. wondered at the time how the mtn could make the decision to close when the lots were full the previous weekend. did they think/know there was gonna be that dramatic of a drop off and that they were gonna go from full to no one in one week? where did all those people go? kbl or did they hang it up? would 50% capacity at bear been good enough? or are you sending a message to your customers by shutting down 2 base areas, that perhaps the season is over and it's time to move into the spring recreation cycle. don't pretend to know the answer but one thing pres smith never did was send that message.

btw have no prob with them shutting down ramshead since those folks probably wouldn't have come back but bear is a different story.

gmcunni · Mar 8, 2012

bobbutts said:
@Mr. Cummings
I only ski at a bunny slope in ct. It makes actual skiers upset when you close, and since I hate my own life and enjoy bothering other people, I'll pretend to support things you do and even pretend I have financial interest in it, even though that's a lie. Hopefully the other people on the internet will think I'm cool.

ouch, that's what i hate about AZ, too many personal attacks.

gmcunni · Mar 8, 2012

Highway Star said:
(Note to Nick - can you please leave this ase a separate thread? Thanks!)

well, that didn't work.

gmcunni · Mar 8, 2012

bobbutts said:
@Mr. Cummings
I only ski at a bunny slope in ct. It makes actual skiers upset when you close, and since I hate my own life and enjoy bothering other people, I'll pretend to support things you do and even pretend I have financial interest in it, even though that's a lie. Hopefully the other people on the internet will think I'm cool.

btw, i don't ONLY ski a bunny hill in CT, just MOSTLY.

Attn. Killington, Chris Danforth, Marketing Manager - RE: SPRING SKIING

Administrator

Member

New member

Member

Well-known member

New member

Active member

New member

Member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

New member

Member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Similar threads