2012 Closings

[MadPatSki]

And then there were 2.

3 in the East: MSS, K and Jay.

Since I've been tracking end of season closing in 2006, between 2 to 7 ski areas in East (Canada included) would make it to May. We are still 12 days away from May skiing.

 

[wa-loaf]

Sugarloaf is done!

 

[soposkier]

Gondi Line still has nice patch up top!

 

[MadPatSki]

MadPat's late season weekly update: 3 ski areas

“May” not ski and ride lifts for long in the East – East Closing Thread 2012 – Part 6
http://madpatski.wordpress.com/2012...-in-the-east-east-closing-thread-2012-part-6/

 

[snowmonster]

Depressing...

 

[Nick]

And then there were 2.

Jay and K?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[jimmywilson69]

J & k

 

[MadPatSki]

J & K in VT/Northeast
MSS in QC/Eastern Canada

3...

Details and opnions/comments in my blog post. :smash:

 

[ski_resort_observer]

This has been a very interesting spring. Jay and kmart have completely diferent reasons for staying open as long as possible, to be the so called "king of spring". in the eastern US.

I am sure they are both looking at their daily cash balance sheets and shaking their heads. Powdr has big issues on the home turf back in Utah, Jay needs alot of cash to keep up with the huge maintanance/energy costs of their new facilities.

I think Jay will end up being the winner, with their snowfall, they should be. They need customers, lots of new ones, to have their new business model be sustainable. Conversly, if less snow is a real trend, maybe they will be ahead of the curve in having unique non-skiing winter activities.

 

[MadPatSki]

This has been a very interesting spring. Jay and kmart have completely diferent reasons for staying open as long as possible, to be the so called "king of spring". in the eastern US.

I am sure they are both looking at their daily cash balance sheets and shaking their heads. Powdr has big issues on the home turf back in Utah, Jay needs alot of cash to keep up with the huge maintanance/energy costs of their new facilities.

I think Jay will end up being the winner, with their snowfall, they should be. They need customers, lots of new ones, to have their new business model be sustainable. Conversly, if less snow is a real trend, maybe they will be ahead of the curve in having unique non-skiing winter activities.

I know that revenue at Jay has increase significantly. They are attracting people that aren't even that interested in the skiing. Non skiing co-worker went to Jay from Ottawa this Winter for a hockey tournament. So Ice Haus, waterpark.is definitely helping attract people to the place, people that wouldn't have considered coming before.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

I know that revenue at Jay has increase significantly. They are attracting people that aren't even that interested in the skiing. Non skiing co-worker went to Jay from Ottawa this Winter for a hockey tournament. So Ice Haus, waterpark.is definitely helping attract people to the place, people that wouldn't have considered coming before.

With all due respect, everyone knows that Jay's revenue has increased. It's been all over the news for about a month. Last night on the WCAX Bill Stenger repeated the 35% number but at least this time he admitted it's because of the new facilities. You add a hotel, a waterpark, a ice hockey rink, of course your going to take in more money. Not exactly rocket science.

It's profit that is the number that means anything to Jay or any other business on the planet. Gross revenue means little, EBIDTA(gross profits) has more meaning but it's pure profits/net revenue that determine the future sustainability of any business. Unless your a Ponzi scheme. lol Add in the fact it's a weather dependent business and your talking a business model that's been a real tough nut the last 10 years or so.

I would love to see the power bill to keep the waterpark structure heated, keep the water moving. Add in labor, insurance, cleaning, lights etc. I hope it all works out for Jay. I have friends working up there now. They have two years to satisfy the EB-5 jobs creation requirement. I beleve it's 10 jobs for every half million invested in Jay's program. Doing the math that comes to about 1000 jobs. That's a big increase in labor costs from what they had before the developement. They are walking a fine line, financially IMHO.

Conversly, I know they are working hard on attracting more groups, more weddings, more conventions, more events, more activities and are having some success with all the facilities they can now offer. Smuggs has been very busy in the summer with families for years in part due to their outdoor water parks. The exchange rate helps to bring more business from the Montreal area and beyond. The new golf course is a plus.

As I said above, I wish them luck. They have taken on alot of risk, I hope they succeed. In the mid 80's, Jackson Hole Ski Corp(what it was called back then) needed and got 2 major airlines(I remember one was Delta) to offer direct flight from several major cities to the JH Airport by subsidizing the flights that had empty seats. Jay and JH both suffer from isolated locations.

Lastly, I read the list of Jay's 90 or so EB-5 foreign investors awhile back. I was surprised that the the largest amount was paid for by a Brit.

 

[deadheadskier]

Hard for even a Brit to gain citizenship in the states these days. Friends of my parents were kicked out after their Visas came due. They had bought a house here, had a son in school, the father attempted to bring his electronic wholesale business to the US and was doing a couple hundred grand in business (10M in Britain though), but still sent home and told they could spend no more than 6 months of the year here in the states.

 

[MadPatSki]

With all due respect, everyone knows that Jay's revenue has increased. It's been all over the news for about a month. Last night on the WCAX Bill Stenger repeated the 35% number but at least this time he admitted it's because of the new facilities. You add a hotel, a waterpark, a ice hockey rink, of course your going to take in more money. Not exactly rocket science.

It's profit that is the number that means anything to Jay or any other business on the planet. Gross revenue means little, EBIDTA(gross profits) has more meaning but it's pure profits/net revenue that determine the future sustainability of any business. Unless your a Ponzi scheme. lol Add in the fact it's a weather dependent business and your talking a business model that's been a real tough nut the last 10 years or so.

I would love to see the power bill to keep the waterpark structure heated, keep the water moving. Add in labor, insurance, cleaning, lights etc. I hope it all works out for Jay. I have friends working up there now. They have two years to satisfy the EB-5 jobs creation requirement. I beleve it's 10 jobs for every half million invested in Jay's program. Doing the math that comes to about 1000 jobs. That's a big increase in labor costs from what they had before the developement. They are walking a fine line, financially IMHO.

Conversly, I know they are working hard on attracting more groups, more weddings, more conventions, more events, more activities and are having some success with all the facilities they can now offer. Smuggs has been very busy in the summer with families for years in part due to their outdoor water parks. The exchange rate helps to bring more business from the Montreal area and beyond. The new golf course is a plus.

As I said above, I wish them luck. They have taken on alot of risk, I hope they succeed. In the mid 80's, Jackson Hole Ski Corp(what it was called back then) needed and got 2 major airlines(I remember one was Delta) to offer direct flight from several major cities to the JH Airport by subsidizing the flights that had empty seats. Jay and JH both suffer from isolated locations.

Lastly, I read the list of Jay's 90 or so EB-5 foreign investors awhile back. I was surprised that the the largest amount was paid for by a Brit.

Sorry, I'm not a local which can watch WCAX, so I wasn't aware it was so much information out there.

Agree that revenue means nothing is your expenses increase even more. This was the right season to start operations on the park, because could you have imagine the financial aspect if it wouldn't start until 2013? I think their other activities save them for taking a worst hit for a bad season.

Jay isn't as isolated as Jackson. Close to 4 millions people are within 90 minutes drive (okay, there is some competition for those dollars, but still).

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Sorry, I'm not a local which can watch WCAX, so I wasn't aware it was so much information out there.

Agree that revenue means nothing is your expenses increase even more. This was the right season to start operations on the park, because could you have imagine the financial aspect if it wouldn't start until 2013? I think their other activities save them for taking a worst hit for a bad season.

Jay isn't as isolated as Jackson. Close to 4 millions people are within 90 minutes drive (okay, there is some competition for those dollars, but still).

Ya don't need to be a local anymore, I watched the interview from their website/FB page. Plenty of threads about this on all the ski/ride forums you are now posting on. Article on First Tracks as well. :wink:

I think you have identified their basic business plan. It definately looks good on paper. The exchange rate has always been a non-factor as Jay has taken it on par, as has the Bush, even 15 years ago.

 

[bigbob]

Killington has announced on their Facebook page that they will be closing this Sunday.

 

[riverc0il]

Killington has announced on their Facebook page that they will be closing this Sunday.

No surprise there. They had a single groomer width of snow on the headwall and the Skylark option required a short down hike and the path back to the quad was partially a mud out, walking will be required to get back to the quad for Sunday most likely. There is no way they could go another weekend.

Kudos to K for going until it was truly done this year. That might be the first time they have truly gone to the last possible weekend under the current ownership.

 

[snowmonster]

Jay

It started drizzling here at Jay at around 130 pm. I'm getting conflicting reports about closing. Before the drizzles began, I was on the Jet with a patroller and she told me that they were closing on Sunday. Then, when I switched over to the Metro in the late afternoon at around 245 pm, the lift was already closed but the lifty let me on. When I got to the top, the lifty there congratulated me for being the last skier on the mountain this season since today was the last day. I milked that run and made as many turns as I could. When I got to the Tower Bar, there were a few people there. The guy I shared a beer with said that the mountain would be open until Monday at least to beat Killington.

Which one is which, I don't know. I have a ticket for tomorrow and I want them to open on Sunday at least. Worse case scenario, I'm skinning up the Jet to get me ski day in.

Jet and Haynes are still skiing well. They said Exhibition was good today but I never got to the Flyer.

 

[MadPatSki]

I was on the Jet with a patroller and she told me that they were closing on Sunday. Then, when I switched over to the Metro in the late afternoon at around 245 pm, the lift was already closed but the lifty let me on. When I got to the top, the lifty there congratulated me for being the last skier on the mountain this season since today was the last day.
(...)
Jet and Haynes are still skiing well. They said Exhibition was good today but I never got to the Flyer.

Sitting here in the front of the computer after having looked at the websites. They should be open tomorrow.

Jay Peak website:

Tramside is now closed for the season. *We are currently spinning the Triple Chair with access to three trails.

Here's the deal: *We are expecting a bit of unsettled weather coming in; to the tune of an inch or two of rain. *So, we are going to shutdown Sunday, April 22nd @ 4p and evaluate re-opening for the following weekend sometime mid-week.Shutdown Sunday, April 22nd @ 4p and evaluate re-opening for the following weekend sometime mid-week.

So you were the last one to ride a lift on the Tramside.
Jay should be open tomorrow.
Re-evaluating for next weekend. Forecast isn't so bad (not really hot days), so I would think they might re-open.

MSS was closed today; they won't run the lift if no one shows up (been raining all day here - I suspect it might been the same there). They'll open tomorrow if the forecast is good.

If you asked my opinion, I expect that Jay and MSS will open next weekend if the weather is good.

********
I just update my blog post and wanted to tell about K...but I guess you guys already know.

Ski Mad World:

Saturday update:

Killington has announced that Sunday April 22 will be their last day of the season.

Ran in the forecast where the three remaining ski areas.

Mt St-Sauveur was closed today with the rain, will open sunday is the forecast is better: 2 runs / $20. Open only on weekends.

Jay Peak is only running the Triple. 3 runs / $35. Will be evaluating re-opening the weekend sometimes midweek..

Killington is at 5 runs / $49. Last day on April 22.

 

[snowmonster]

^ Thanks for the clarification, madpatski! Just got back from the waterpark. Ski and surf on the same day? Check!

 

[MadPatSki]

^ Thanks for the clarification, madpatski! Just got back from the waterpark. Ski and surf on the same day? Check!

Full TR on the way with many pics? :beer: