Generators

[skijay]

I am going to get one and leaning towards a portable but the standby option looks appealing but it's expensive.

My current plan:

Purchase a good quality electric start portable 6500 watts (gas) - still researching may go bigger but planning to pay no more than $1,000 for one. My electrician told me 6000 watts minimum for my house.

Manual transfer switch, 6 circuit breaker, outside outlet to plug the generator in. (I think this is what he told me) I am having an electrician do this. This is going to cost between $400 and $600.

The electrician is encouraging me to go with a standby system. He does not sell them - just installs them. I have already had a propane company give me an estimate of $1,800 to have a tank and the plumbing for a gas fireplace insert that was in 2008, I am sure it is the same if not more to get a hook up.

So I figure $3,000 for a 14,000 watt propane generator, $1,800 +/- for the propane hookup, $700 for the auto transfer switch, $300 for installation of generator. I'm looking at about close to $6,000 for a standby model.

Pros of each:
portable -affordable to buy & have installed correctly for use, I can easily store 10 to 15 gallons of gas, generator can be stored safely when not in use.
standby - it's automatic and runs on propane. Propane tank can be plumbed for a fireplace insert that I have always wanted.

cons:
portable - just got to make sure it gets started at least 3x a year to keep the carb from gunking up and must keep fresh supply of gas.
standby - cost. Will I ever get my money's worth out of this?


Any advice?

 

[Geoff]

Why not just buy a cheap 220v manual start generator and plug it into your electric dryer outlet or a new spare 220v outlet? You have to manually flip your main breaker and hook up the power cord before starting the generator but you don't need a PhD in Electrical Engineering to do that. I'm sure there are a bajillion generators on Craigslist right now that only have a few hours on them.

 

[skijay]

I know it is a simple method and does work as you are shutting of the main breaker, and all the circuits and then introducing the power through the dryer which is directly to the circuit breaker and then turning on circuits you want to run, furnace, different parts of your home, etc.

I don't want to be held liable if something went wrong. I would rather pay the money to have a generator (portable) properly feed the circuits & grounded. If there was ever a malfunction at least I can prove I had a licensed contractor do the work and the generator was used properly.

 

[drjeff]

Having spoken to many real estate agents about this topic, especially as of late, since prolonged power outtages have been a regular topic here in CT lately A standby system IS a plus if you're selling your house, where you will get your $$ back on that investment. Having a house all wired for a portable is a nice thing to add to the list of features on a house, but doesn't do a thing for is selling appeal.

I realize that the marketability of a house likely isn't a big thought when making a generator choice, but there is a difference between the two systems

 

[skijay]

I can see the standby would be a selling feature especially if I had it now & listing my house!

 

[SkiFanE]

Why not just buy a cheap 220v manual start generator and plug it into your electric dryer outlet or a new spare 220v outlet? You have to manually flip your main breaker and hook up the power cord before starting the generator but you don't need a PhD in Electrical Engineering to do that. I'm sure there are a bajillion generators on Craigslist right now that only have a few hours on them.

We lost power for 4 days over Halloween. Hubby bought a $300 generator, on sale, 4000watts I think. Got it hooked up through an outlet (not the dryer tho, closest one to back door) and into breaker, then ran wire to heater (couldn't figure out which breaker had the heater, electrician didn't label elect panel very well). Hubby is an EE. Long term we need to figure out which breaker goes to heater. But for this, we got heat, hot water, and 2 outlets in kitchen (with DSL and landline, got 'net connected too). Totally livable, for $300 and an extension cord. We never ran generator when not home or when sleeping. First time we've lost power for more than a few hours in nearly 20 years...don't feel the need to go for broke.

 

[mattm59]

about that dryer outlet thing

basically, what I've read is it's illegal and dangerous. Many forums stating this, this one's typical.
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/electrical-c-d-c/119745-generator-plug-dryer-outlet.html


I've had portable generators for 15 years, first a 5500 continuos Generac that became a mouse condo., then I bought a small 3300watt cont.(duro-star, around $300 on Amazon) which got us thru 4 days of Alfred okay. Selling that one tomorrow to a friend, as I bought a 6500 watt cont.(Hyundai HHD7250, around $1100 on Amazon right now, it's a sweetheart) and decided I don't need two. I got the bigger one to be able to keep my back-ups from beeping on the computer when running microwave, stove or other hi wattage stuff (figuring space heaters this winter possibly). I did buy a single circuit transfer switch to wire in the furnace. Beauty of a portable for me, is I used to bring it to my sailboat in the spring to run power tools and to the site when I was doing construction.
I've also built a small (so far) deep cycle battery/solar panel/inverter set up, so I can run TV, fridge, computer etc. overnight w/o having the drone of a motor going. I'm doing a load of laundry off that right now, for the hell of it.

As far as getting your money back with a stand by system...I find that a theoretical question. What kind of market are we looking at here? Bull, bear? Your house may be worth $300,000 one day, a year later it's $190,00, then back up or down, only time knows.

 

[Geoff]

basically, what I've read is it's illegal and dangerous. Many forums stating this, this one's typical.
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/electrical-c-d-c/119745-generator-plug-dryer-outlet.html


I've had portable generators for 15 years, first a 5500 continuos Generac that became a mouse condo., then I bought a small 3300watt cont.(duro-star, around $300 on Amazon) which got us thru 4 days of Alfred okay. Selling that one tomorrow to a friend, as I bought a 6500 watt cont.(Hyundai HHD7250, around $1100 on Amazon right now, it's a sweetheart) and decided I don't need two. I got the bigger one to be able to keep my back-ups from beeping on the computer when running microwave, stove or other hi wattage stuff (figuring space heaters this winter possibly). I did buy a single circuit transfer switch to wire in the furnace. Beauty of a portable for me, is I used to bring it to my sailboat in the spring to run power tools and to the site when I was doing construction.
I've also built a small (so far) deep cycle battery/solar panel/inverter set up, so I can run TV, fridge, computer etc. overnight w/o having the drone of a motor going. I'm doing a load of laundry off that right now, for the hell of it.

As far as getting your money back with a stand by system...I find that a theoretical question. What kind of market are we looking at here? Bull, bear? Your house may be worth $300,000 one day, a year later it's $190,00, then back up or down, only time knows.

It is not "illegal" to back feed a generator into your house wiring in a single family home. I guarantee you can't point to any state that has a statute on the books for a single family home about this.

It's also not "dangerous". You flip the main breaker. You flip the breakers you're not using. You connect the power cord. You start the generator. When the power comes back, you reverse the process.

I'll bet you can find 1000 chainsaw or snow blower disasters for any instance where somebody screws up with a generator. You'd have to really work at it to kill yourself with a 20 amp generator.

 

[Edd]

It is not "illegal" to back feed a generator into your house wiring in a single family home. I guarantee you can't point to any state that has a statute on the books for a single family home about this.

It's also not "dangerous". You flip the main breaker. You flip the breakers you're not using. You connect the power cord. You start the generator. When the power comes back, you reverse the process.

I saw Greg mention this recently and didn't see the point to saying anything but since it's come up again...as a rule, backfeeding into a system is simply bad electrical practice. I used to do electrical work and it should be avoided in my opinion.

 

[mattm59]

be safe, and a four step process in the dark ??

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26640
Also noting on some links about various grounding methods causing leakage.

okay...here's another link...also thinking backfeeding into an outlet could be an issue for other reasons. A 6500 watt generator is putting out 54 amps, a dryer outlet is 30, a typical outlet (as skifan used) is 15. I'm thinking heavy draw could cause a lot of heat and breaker/fuse issues here.

nice link here...Montana...but good info.
http://dma.mt.gov/des/library/genbrochurev3.PDF

 

[Geoff]

I saw Greg mention this recently and didn't see the point to saying anything but since it's come up again...as a rule, backfeeding into a system is simply bad electrical practice. I used to do electrical work and it should be avoided in my opinion.

That's totally subjective. I have an Electrical Engineering degree so I have at least a minor clue about this.

 

[mattm59]

engineering

and reality collide at times.uke:

It's not often a perfect world out there.

 

[Edd]

That's totally subjective. I have an Electrical Engineering degree so I have at least a minor clue about this.

Then you understand that that practice sets the table for an accident if all of the steps you listed aren't followed. Which is fine since you have an EE degree but you claimed earlier it's not "dangerous". I"m sure you understand why I would advise against it.

 

[Geoff]

Then you understand that that practice sets the table for an accident if all of the steps you listed aren't followed. Which is fine since you have an EE degree but you claimed earlier it's not "dangerous". I"m sure you understand why I would advise against it.

To stop your car when you're going 55 mph and see a red light, you have to remove your foot from the gas pedal, place it on the brake pedal, and slowly apply pressure until the car comes to a stop.

I'd argue that it's far more dangerous to fail to follow the steps to stop a car at a traffic light than what could potentially go wrong if you forget to flip your main breaker. The odds are very low that you have a downed wire between your house and the nearest power transformer where a power company lineman grabs the wire and gets a jolt. If you fail to stop a car at a stop light, you're going to put somebody in the hospital every time.

By the way, you run the exact same risk if you install an active solar system on your roof and "sell" the power back to the electric company. You don't hear people screaming about the dangers of those systems. A power company lineman from Wisconsin working in your neighborhood cleaning up downed lines after a huge ice storm or hurricane isn't going to have a clue about your solar system.

 

[billski]

OT - I stop for EE's

That's totally subjective. I have an Electrical Engineering degree so I have at least a minor clue about this.

Hey us EE's gotta stick together around here.

Too many people running around the country calling themselves "engineers". this comment is entirely OT, but I stop for EEs.

 

[Geoff]

Hey us EE's gotta stick together around here.

Too many people running around the country calling themselves "engineers". this comment is entirely OT, but I stop for EEs.

Some would consider not stopping a mercy killing.

 

[billski]

Some would consider not stopping a mercy killing.

Are you condoning suicide?

 

[FishingEd]

Got a 5500 watt Generac after the Halloween storm. Going to have it professionally hard wired in but am waiting for the pro (my Dad!) to come and give me a hand with it.

We are on a well so losing power really makes it tough to stay in the house.
It's one of those things that since I have close to $1k into it (generator+cable+supplies) I sort of want to use it but that wouldn't make sense would it?!

 

[gmcunni]

no power outage during Irene
48 hours outage during Oct snow storm last year
48 hours outage (so far) this storm

i'll be shopping for a generator shortly. plan to feed the panel in the basement, not sure exactly how yet.

 

[o3jeff]

no power outage during Irene
48 hours outage during Oct snow storm last year
48 hours outage (so far) this storm

i'll be shopping for a generator shortly. plan to feed the panel in the basement, not sure exactly how yet.

Good luck, They are saying by end of Tuesday everyone will have power.

Correct way, transfer switch, temporarily is to backfeed. I know before the storm Costco had a 7500 Generac for $8-900 with electric start. But I am sure everyone will be grabbing generators for the next 2 months when they see them at stores.