Massive ORDA Lift Upgrades Across 3 Resorts

[ne_skier]

ORDA plans to invest $38M into new lifts for the 2023 season. Gore, Whiteface and Belleayre are to receive new lifts, some on new alignments. Thoughts?

ORDA to Spend $38 Million on Lifts in ’23

Citing a tight supply chain and manufacturer consolidation, the staff of New York’s Olympic Regional Development Authority today requested board approval for seven major lift projects to be c…

liftblog.com

 

[Newpylong]

Digging the Ski Bowl project at Gore, that area is so underutilized. If they can make snow over there to go along with it...

Don't have any opinion on the other two, never been, never will likely.

 

[cdskier]

Replacing Lift 7 at Belleayre makes sense I think. The new alignment allows you to take the new beginner quad from the lower base area and then get to the new Lift 7 load point from there. With the old alignment, you really couldn't do that. You'd either have to walk across the road/parking lot and up the hill to Lift 7, or ski down from the beginner quad to the other Belleayre Express quad that goes to the top if it was running. I always parked at the 2nd lodge (or at Tomahawk), so this wouldn't help people like me. But it does help make access easier for people that park at the lower lodge and provides a bit better redundancy if the the other express quad on that side of the mountain is down for some reason.

 

[PAabe]

Master plan calls for widening and straightening of many of the trails, replacing the better of the burnt ridge glades with trails... will they even blow snow on burnt ridge, little gore or lookout? They havent been open hardly at all despite all of the trees they cut and lifts they installed in those wilderness areas

A better ski bowl lodge I can get behind but they really need to up their snowmaking game over there for it to be any good

Whiteface multi-stage detachable is an incredible expenditure of money for a lift very few people will use.

The triple at Belleayre is the prettiest part of the Mountain- I dont know how they are going to shoehorn detachable terminals and a new liftline in there without really tearing stuff up. Do we really need a detachable for like 700 vertical feet?

I am by no means against improvements but it seems to me that this money could be much better spent on snowmaking or other projects for the good people of NYS like finally getting sewers for North Creek - ORDA seems to do a lot of these projects without considering how they mesh into the character and needs of the ski areas and Adirondack and Catskill parks, rather just spending money for the sake of spending it. I love the ORDA ski centers but would prefer they retain more of their classic character... not a NY taxpayer though so ultimately my opinion doesn't matter

 

[Kingslug20]

And Highmount remains...in the weeds

 

[cdskier]

And Highmount remains...in the weeds

Valid point...I'd like to see that move forward sooner rather than later. When they put the gondola in, we kept hearing that was a key first step and needed to be done before anything related to Highmount for some reason. Yet here we are and they continue to make other capital improvements before announcing any further plans for the Highmount expansion.

 

[ss20]

Good God $16.5m for a two stage detach at whiteface to access terrain already accessible by a detach and in a pod no one would ever ever lap in any conceivable manner.

Wtffffff

 

[cdskier]

Good God $16.5m for a two stage detach at whiteface to access terrain already accessible by a detach and in a pod no one would ever ever lap in any conceivable manner.

Wtffffff

Ooof...I didn't even look at the Whiteface part until you called it out. That is an incredible waste of money it seems. Yikes...I don't get that one at all.

 

[PAabe]

Good God $16.5m for a two stage detach at whiteface to access terrain already accessible by a detach and in a pod no one would ever ever lap in any conceivable manner.

Wtffffff

Amazing that this lift was "unanimously approved" by the ORDA board... not one person on there thinks this might be a waste of money

 

[cdskier]

Amazing that this lift was "unanimously approved" by the ORDA board... not one person on there thinks this might be a waste of money

Nothing amazing about it. Does a single person on the ORDA board actually have any ski area management experience? Not as far as I can tell...they're mostly politicians/political appointees that just want to get as much money as possible for the towns/counties they represent. They have no idea what a reasonable price is for a ski lift and whether it is really justified at the cost they're being presented with.

 

[PAabe]

Some interesting tweets from liftblog

ORDA spending 38million in one year on these lifts - total revenue in one year, before expenses, isn't more than that

$6million+ for the replacement of the 2700' 800' vert Belleayre lift isn't exactly a steal either

“Whiteface hasn’t had a new lift in…I can’t even remember…maybe since the gondola.” -ORDA Board Member before voting to fund Whiteface’s third new lift in four years.

Will I continue to take advantage of skiing at the ORDA ski centers? Yes
If I were a NYS taxpayer would I be demanding ORDA get some semblance of accountability? Yes
Will I ski more at Plattekill and Greek Peak if ORDA continues to level and widen their areas a la Vail? Yes

 

[jimmywilson69]

That is a literal L O L about whiteface's 3rd new lift in 4 years...

This comes across to me as a "Keepin up with the Jones" move.

 

[ss20]

If I was a NYS taxpayer I'd be pretty upset with ORDA about now

The Bellayre gondola was a headscratcher.... but this is sheer lunacy by the ORDA. The new HSQ's at Bellayre and Whiteface are both essentially redundant lifts to existing high-speed quads.

Does ORDA work with any master planning groups? Because I can't see how ANYONE with ski area management expertise would recommend the Whiteface lift. The Bellayre lift is slightly conceivable where it'd at least appear as an "alternative" on a master plan but never see the light of day in reality.

 

[ss20]

That is a literal L O L about whiteface's 3rd new lift in 4 years...

This comes across to me as a "Keepin up with the Jones" move.

I can't fathom who they're keeping up with. $16.5 million for the new Whiteface quad... there won't be a CapEx improvement that big at any resort in the northeast til Cannon gets its new tram or Killington replaces the Skyeship I/II.

 

[cdskier]

FWIW, at the April ORDA Board meeting, they approved resolutions for capex spending of roughly $90M total. Not a single no vote on any of the resolutions.

Some interesting tweets from liftblog

ORDA spending 38million in one year on these lifts - total revenue in one year, before expenses, isn't more than that

Yes... ORDA's yearly revenue only covers about 70% of their annual operating expenses (never-mind CapEx). The other 30% of their operating budget comes from the state (and town of North Elba).

 

[Kingslug20]

I can see replacing lifts that are kaput..but spending this kind of money on new ones that don't make sense...doesnt make sense.
They arent skiers..so what do they really know..

 

[drjeff]

Gotta spend some of that remaining general fund federal Covid $$ before some degree of fiscal accountability returns (hopefully) in the future

 

[PAabe]

Instead of spending 38million on redundant and pointless lifts... how about actually make some snow on Burnt Ridge, Little Gore, Lookout Mountain, and the Belleayre XC trails... raze down the weeds at highmount... remove some of the sharks off the beginner trails at Whiteface... operate the Little Whiteface lifts during holidays

 

[Kingslug20]

Those are not capex projects...My last job drove me crazy with capex projects..but operating expenses..oh no...cut that to pieces.

 

[ne_skier]

Belleayre's plans are just spending money for the sake of spending money. I'm going to disregard the Highmount expansion as I'm willing to bet it was thrown in there to appease the developer who's likely fuming after the project has been stagnant for nearly a decade.
I don't see the point of the Lift 7 project, and I think that it will harm the area. Lift 7 isn't that long of a ride and very rarely gets a line longer than 5 minutes. Currently, that area has arguably the best terrain on the mountain with the least crowds. The new lift could crowd the last bit of uncrowded terrain on the mountain, which sucks especially when only groomers are open.
Hopefully, the new lift doesn't result in Utsayantha becoming a forever-groomed run, as that run is arguably the best on the mountain if there is natural snow. Perhaps somewhere in those 9 million dollars, they can find the money to hire a few guys with chainsaws to restore the Tomahawk Liftline, Dreamcatcher, and Cathedral Brook trails back to service.