Natural Snow Trails

[marcski]

Yes. Platty, will occasionally roll and/or groom some of the natural snow trails to preserve the snow. The feel underfoot is still so so so much better than man-made snow...and, its done very infrequently.

 

[riverc0il]

I have no complaint with laying down a base, grooming it once, and letting it go wild. Maybe leveling the moguls after a nasty rain/freeze or when the bumps get outta control. I think Vista could definitely benefit from this. Let's face it, that trail NEEDS snow making. It is a rocky ledgy mess all year round because it doesn't get snowmaking (great reserved powder stash, though so okay, whatev). Blow, level it, and forget it. I am down.

I think there should be a few forever wild trails. Mid Hard... I'm okay with it being open limited days and having crappy conditions a majority of the days it is open. Part of the experience, there.

So for me, it depends on the nature of the trail.

The problem with snowmaking and grooming once is that resorts don't know when to stop. Usually if a trail has snowmaking, it gets groomed everyday. I don't know many mountains that blow an entire trail's worth of snowmaking and then let the trail go wild. Would be nice but I can't think of a single trail it is done that way. I am sure there are example but few and far between when it should be more regular.

 

[BenedictGomez]

For a place like Stowe and a natural snow trail like Chinclip, I never want to see it groomed.

My favorite trail at Stowe.

 

[ScottySkis]

The problem with snowmaking and grooming once is that resorts don't know when to stop. Usually if a trail has snowmaking, it gets groomed everyday. I don't know many mountains that blow an entire trail's worth of snowmaking and then let the trail go wild. Would be nice but I can't think of a single trail it is done that way. I am sure there are example but few and far between when it should be more regular.

I think Hunter does not groom the west side so much. That why moguls lovers go their.

 

[skiking4]

They do though. Clair's is groomed so often. Once it goes through a freeze and thaw, it gets groomed. IMO good thing too

 

[deadheadskier]

They do though. Clair's is groomed so often. Once it goes through a freeze and thaw, it gets groomed. IMO good thing too

I think it depends on the trail and local climate as to whether grooming after a freeze/thaw is a good thing or not. If the bumps on the trail are good, just leave em' alone. Eventually temps will either warm up or more snow will come and they'll be fine again. You keep grooming something to death after such events and all that ends up happening is the snow gets pulverized into perpetual frozen granular crap on top of a frozen slab. You can't turn such surfaces backed into "packed powder" again. It needs either more natural snow or snowmaking. If it's a natural snow cover trail, the latter ain't happening, which is why I think it's best to just leave frozen over bumps alone for a while.

 

[BenedictGomez]

You keep grooming something to death after such events and all that ends up happening is the snow gets pulverized into perpetual frozen granular crap on top of a frozen slab.

Welcome to The Poconos

 

[bvibert]

I think it depends on the trail and local climate as to whether grooming after a freeze/thaw is a good thing or not. If the bumps on the trail are good, just leave em' alone. Eventually temps will either warm up or more snow will come and they'll be fine again. You keep grooming something to death after such events and all that ends up happening is the snow gets pulverized into perpetual frozen granular crap on top of a frozen slab. You can't turn such surfaces backed into "packed powder" again. It needs either more natural snow or snowmaking. If it's a natural snow cover trail, the latter ain't happening, which is why I think it's best to just leave frozen over bumps alone for a while.

Exactly!

 

[Abubob]

The skiers right side of Showboat at Ragged is left au natural but sometimes I wish they could break up the crust that can develop. The problem with that is there is a large scree field under the steepest section. So in the long run its best not to groom at all.

I also wish there was a way to make small patches of new snow. What I mean by small is an area the size of about 10 ft x 10 ft. Maybe with one of those backyard snowmakers?

 

[dlague]

Not sure who mentioned it, but I agree with if it looks OK don't groom it! If there is a thaw and a deep freeze - groom it! If the troughs start showing dirt - groom it! Dirt is like snow cancer - keep that shit covered!

 

[steamboat1]

I also wish there was a way to make small patches of new snow. What I mean by small is an area the size of about 10 ft x 10 ft. Maybe with one of those backyard snowmakers?

This is nothing new. I've seen it done many times to cover a bare patch or icy area.

 

[Abubob]

This is nothing new. I've seen it done many times to cover a bare patch or icy area.

Not on "natural" only terrain though or in glades. I think the real problem with making snow in glades is that massive amounts of ice that build up on limbs and trees and tear them down.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Though it technically could be done, I'd be pretty irate if they blew snow in the glades. I'd rather it be closed.

 

[Abubob]

Though it technically could be done, I'd be pretty irate if they blew snow in the glades. I'd rather it be closed.

I can appreciate that. Natural snow skis much differently than natural. Its a totally different consistency. It can be a little grabby. I withdraw the question yer honor.

 

[HowieT2]

Sugarbush does groom middle earth and castlerock run once or twice a season. They usually do it after a thaw/freeze when they are expecting a significant snowfall. My understanding is that it is done to smooth out the surface for the new snow, and set up fresh moguls. Lift line cant be groomed for obvious reasons although i think patrol manually goes and packs it down at the beginning of the season.

 

[thetrailboss]

Getting back to the original question, it really depends. You need to have enough snow so that the machine does not tear things up. You also need a trail that is relatively easy to navigate with a large machine and that is not too steep so that the machine does not rip the snow off of it.

I'm of the mind set that if the trail has enough snow on it, and the surface is not too bad, to leave it. Grooming compresses the snow and really pushes the air out of it (despite the fact that the tiller is designed to aerate it). The upside being redistribution of snow since if the trail has not seen any new snow then traffic will wear certain areas down to grass or rock while there is a huge mogul on the other side.

 

[KevinF]

I've always liked Stowe's interactive trail map where they say "Starr has never seen a snow gun or a groomer and it never will". :beer:

That said, places like Stowe that receive substantially more snowfall then other places can get away with different grooming philosophies then mountains that won't recover from thaw/refreeze events as quickly.

 

[Smellytele]

Compacting the snow only leads to things being able to be scrapped off sooner. While leaving it alone may lead to less opened days when it is open after it gets snow or when it gets soft it will be better. A groomer trail seems to get down to the base too soon and takes longer to soften up. Grooming is like using synthetic oil - once you use it you have to always use it.

 

[jimmywilson69]

Grooming is like using synthetic oil - once you use it you have to always use it.

If you groom it once, to compact the base, and let it go al natural afterwords I think the trail would be more skiable. Once a trail gets down to the dirt, its pretty much never skiable until it snows again.

 

[Smellytele]

If you groom it once, to compact the base, and let it go al natural afterwords I think the trail would be more skiable. Once a trail gets down to the dirt, its pretty much never skiable until it snows again.

I would rather see some patches of dirt then slick old hard groomed snow