Orford (QC) - 2/19/2013

[MadPatSki]

Happy you made it up North Snowmonster. Riverc0il, you should be next. Owl's Head is the tip of the iceberg in Quebec (that being said, I still say that the top areas in the East are in New England and Whiteface).

Sutton gets more snow than Orford. Although I've skied Orford only twice since Reagan was first elected to the White House; I've always love that mountain. For some reason, it has always fallen through the crack (too many places to ski).

Orford has better terrain and challenge than Sutton, but you need some good snow for that terrain to live up to it's full potential. Sutton and the rest of the Greens (Sutton is an extension) gets the snow.

Here is an old TR from March 2005. I sent it to snowmonster. Hopefully it attract a few of you off the unbeaten path north of the border (i.e. : I don't work for any tourism boards, just love to explore and for people to explore the geography of skiing).

[h=2]Orford, QC – March 18th 2005[/h]http://madpatski.wordpress.com/2005/03/21/orford-qc-march-18th-2005/

 

[fbrissette]

(that being said, I still say that the top areas in the East are in New England and Whiteface).

I'm not one to defend Quebec ski areas as I ski in Vermont, but Tremblant, Ste-Anne and Le Massif can hold their own against any New-England resort and Whiteface.

 

[MadPatSki]

I'm not one to defend Quebec ski areas as I ski in Vermont, but Tremblant, Ste-Anne and Le Massif can hold their own against any New-England resort and Whiteface.

In Quebec, Ste-Anne is the only one that I clearly place around the middle of a Eastern Top10 for my linking (terrain/challenge). I would put Tremblant and Le Massif on the edge of a Top 10 list. That being said, NH's best skiing (Cannon and Wildcat) would also be on the edge of that list (of course, I'm talking on-piste).

What would be on a Top 10 list? Off the top of my head (not in order)

- Stowe
- Smuggs
- Sugarloaf
- Whiteface
- MRG
- Ste-Anne

Then there is a cluster f*ck for the rest...which would have places like Jay, Kmart, SRiver, SBush...followed by places like Massif, Tremblant, Cannon, Wildcat, etc.
Sutton and Orford are maybe just one notch below.

But I agree on one thing; lists are very limiting and very personal. If you want to make a list, that's cool, but first ski at the most ski areas possible and make up your own mind (that is why people should try Orford, Sutton, Le Massif, etc). I personally have yet to have made it out to (short list):

QC : Massif du Sud, La Réserve (partied hard there back in the 1980s, but I didn't ski it), Mt. Édouard, Mt. Miller.
South of the border : Saddleback, Gore, Pico.

 

[fbrissette]

In Quebec, Ste-Anne is the only one that I clearly place around the middle of a Eastern Top10 for my linking (terrain/challenge). I would put Tremblant and Le Massif on the edge of a Top 10 list. That being said, NH's best skiing (Cannon and Wildcat) would also be on the edge of that list (of course, I'm talking on-piste).

What would be on a Top 10 list? Off the top of my head (not in order)

- Stowe
- Smuggs
- Sugarloaf
- Whiteface
- MRG
- Ste-Anne

Then there is a cluster f*ck for the rest...which would have places like Jay, Kmart, SRiver, SBush...followed by places like Massif, Tremblant, Cannon, Wildcat, etc.
Sutton and Orford are maybe just one notch below.

But I agree on one thing; lists are very limiting and very personal. If you want to make a list, that's cool, but first ski at the most ski areas possible and make up your own mind (that is why people should try Orford, Sutton, Le Massif, etc). I personally have yet to have made it out to (short list):

QC : Massif du Sud, La Réserve (partied hard there back in the 1980s, but I didn't ski it), Mt. Édouard, Mt. Miller.
South of the border : Saddleback, Gore, Pico.

Lists are very personal indeed, and I do not want to make my own personal list, not do I want to derail this thread. Lists depends on criteria. For example, IMO, Jay Peak is awesome for tree skiing but it mostly sucks for intermediate skiers. But if you look at standard unbiased stats such as vertical, acres of terrain, uphill capacity, facilities and average snowfall, St-Anne, Tremblant and Le Massif are at least as good or better than most New-England resorts. Tremblant tops all eastern skiing surveys.

I simply objected to the blanket statement that implied that Quebec ski resorts were second class to New-England's. And yes, I have skied most of the mountains you listed (except MRG). I have skied La Reserve several times and it does not deserve to be on the same list as the above unless you include partying. Orford and Sutton are nice ski hills (they cannot be called resorts), but Orford gets little snow. Sutton has the glades, great snow (as you have mentioned, it gets the same storms as Jay but its lower altitude makes for a bit less snow), but it is in dire needs of money. It has not changed in 30 years. They both have significantly less than 1500' vertical, especially Sutton that skis much shorter than it's true vertical.

Here's what I would recommend to people wanting to experience the best skiing Quebec has to offer:

Tremblant - if restaurants bars and accomodations (all walk in) are part of the experience you seek, it is impossible to beat. It has awesome skiing but awesome crowds. Lots of high speed lifts equals to crowded runs.
Massif - incredible scenery with the St-Lawrence River at your feet, long steep pitches, awesome off-piste, great snow and nearly 2600' of true skiable vertical. If you are a skier first, that's where I would send you.
Ste-Anne - great skiing all around for all levels of skiers. Close to beautiful Quebec city.

All the other stations are distant second. If you like glade skiing, Sutton is second best to Jay Peak and only 45 minutes away. Orford has some good steep stuff, but it gets significantly less snow and it is very windy. Facilities are minimal at the base for both but Magog and Sutton (the city) are about 6 miles away and are quite nice.

 

[snowmonster]

Settle down, boys. To each his own and let's leave it at that.

I feel like I have unsettled business in the Eastern Townships. I want to ski at Owl's Head then visit the Abbaye de St. Benoit du Lac (not for skiing obviously). My Canadian adventures have whet my appetite for more. I am making plans to visit Quebec City to ski Le Massif and Mont St. Anne. Let me know if you care to join me.

 

[MadPatSki]

I simply objected to the blanket statement that implied that Quebec ski resorts were second class to New-England's.

Snowmonster, we are just talking, I'm just writing calmy and giving my two cents. Not even a heated debate.

Not exactly what I said...I just said in my opinion, the top areas/best New England & Whiteface areas (we are talking one hand full) are above Quebec areas in my books where terrain and challenge are priorities, not the resort aspect. You are correct to state that Quebec ski areas aren't second class to New England.

That is all what I was saying. If you look at the overall picture Quebec and New England ski areas are different, but similar in quality.

 

[snowmonster]

If you think about it, the eastern resorts, whether in Canada or in the US, are all relatively similar -- shortish, wet snow and snowfalls in the 200-400 range. Perhaps, the differences consist in trail design philosophy and amenities (food and service).

 

[fbrissette]

If you think about it, the eastern resorts, whether in Canada or in the US, are all relatively similar -- shortish, wet snow and snowfalls in the 200-400 range. Perhaps, the differences consist in trail design philosophy and amenities (food and service).

If compared to western resorts, I would agree in general. However, within the east, there is tremendous diversity with respect to size (200' to 2600' vertical), a few acres to 800 skiable acres, world-class facility (airport, casino, 6000 beds, 50 restaurants at Tremblant for example), family oriented resort etc... As such my recommendations would vary tremendously depending on who I would be talking to (family, single, tree skier, groomer, ability etc...)

 

[fbrissette]

If you look at the overall picture Quebec and New England ski areas are different, but similar in quality.

I would say there is more diversity in Quebec. But in my book, the largest Quebec resort are not that different than the one in New-England. They each have their personality but they all offer a great skiing experience for all skier levels. The latter cannot be said of most smaller resorts in Quebec.

 

[snowmonster]

If compared to western resorts, I would agree in general. However, within the east, there is tremendous diversity with respect to size (200' to 2600' vertical), a few acres to 800 skiable acres, world-class facility (airport, casino, 6000 beds, 50 restaurants at Tremblant for example), family oriented resort etc... As such my recommendations would vary tremendously depending on who I would be talking to (family, single, tree skier, groomer, ability etc...)

Yes, I was referring to East v. West. That's why, in my TR, I made it a point to refer to a US eastern resort that reminded me of that particular Canadian resort (e.g., Bromont is like Sunapee -- but bigger and with lights). But, you're right. Lots of variation among the resorts. One thing that Canadian resorts have the US beat is the food. Ohmigod, the food. US resort food has been slowly improving but we have a way to go. Though both mountains are within eyesight of each other, the Jay poutine is not the same as the Orford poutine.

How about a mini-AZ TR at Owl's Head? Madpat? fbrisette? Riv? Any others?

 

[MadPatSki]

How about a mini-AZ TR at Owl's Head? Madpat? fbrisette? Riv? Any others?

As long as I have a daughter ski racing, I'm stuck to her scheduled. However mid-March comes around...I hope to start leaving the locals.

Snowmonster, I know I'm not an example to follow on timely TRs, but didn't get to Sutton also on this trip? (I have one from Sutton dating back to a few years that is still in draft mode)

 

[snowmonster]

Ask and ye shall receive:

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/119027-Sutton-(QC)-2-18-2013

It got buried on page 2. Perhaps I shall see you at Owl's Head in mid to late March. I can pretend to be sick on a weekday if necessary.