Talking Pennsylvania

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Do you really think he would want to come down there and hang with that dude after he acted like such an ass??? Maybe, dunno, but I know I wouldn't.

Well then you're missing out..sorry for you!!!

 

[campgottagopee]

Well then you're missing out..sorry for you!!!

I know--I miss out on a lot of stuff

 

[GolfingOwl]

Here is my take, being a suburban Philly guy who skis PA for daytrips and mostly Vermont for extended trips. I also have two kids, 7 and 10, so my views are biased towards what is most fun for all of us:

1. Elk - the best terrain and snow (natural) in PA. Almost like a small NE mountain. Very interesting runs and most natural snow in Eastern PA. They also let several trails go ungroomed so you get bump runs,etc.. Slow lifts, but that is not a bad thing on a small mountain (and you wonder why the slopes of Camelback and Blue are packed??). Biggest issue is lack of snow making. With their northern location, they could be open earlier and close later than everyone if they had decent snowmaking but they constantly lag behind. Just take a look at their conditions page, they are presently about 60% open while everyone else is 100%. Lack of investment in mountain is both good and bad - you lag in things like snowmaking but keeps crowds down and keeps a laid-back feel to the place.

2. Jack Frost - A lack of vertical is the biggest negative but otherwise it is a great little mountain. Excellent snowmaking and cold temps keep snow great (plus they now have fan-guns). East-mountain has some nice steeps, even if they are short. Best thing going for JF is the trees. Only eastern PA resort where they truely let you ski almost anywhere (try that at Blue or Camelback). They also let some trails go ungroomed from time-to-time. Has a nice laid-back feel to it. Only one terrain park tends to limit boarders as well, a plus on small mountains where boarders really seems to scrape snow.

3. Camelback - Small vert but with a wide mountain layout zig-zaging trails, mountain seems bigger than it is. Multiple lifts allow you to avoid crowds if you know where to go. Do some interesting things like letting half a green trail go ungroomed so you have bumps on a green (supper fun for kids and aspiring bump skiers). Can be very crowded. Have high speed lifts but not sure this a great thing for an overcrowded small mountain. Can't wait to see the crowds once the slopeside hotel is completed!!!

4. Blue - Not a big fan even though it is the closest real mountain to me (Spring doesn't qualify). Snow is typically very poor (most likely due to south location) unless you love skiing on man-made ice pellets. Also unbelievably crowded and packed with boarders. Poor layout such as only two green trails from top being narrow and winding making for packed, icy, death runs. They do have some of the better blacks if they are not ice sheets and usually let at least one trail bump up. See my comments above about high speed lifts (now add to the fact you have a 6-pack). Ski patrol were a little full of themselves before they were TV stars.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

4. Blue - not a big fan even though it is the closest real mountain to me (spring doesn't qualify). Snow is typically very poor (most likely due to south location) unless you love skiing on man-made ice pellets. Also unbelievably crowded and packed with boarders. Poor layout such as only two green trails from top being narrow and winding making for packed, icy, death runs. They do have some of the better blacks if they are not ice sheets and usually let at least one trail bump up. See my comments above about high speed lifts (now add to the fact you have a 6-pack). ski patrol were a little full of themselves before they were tv stars.

b i n g o

 

[ski9]

This is really an obnoxious response to HPD's fairly innocuous initial post. He was trying to determine if the info he'd heard about PA skiing was the consensus among folks who regularly ski in PA that post here. Your response came out with both barrels blazing against his home hill when he did not compare WF to PA areas at all or make any kind of quantitative or qualitative comparisons between PA & WF.

WTF is up your ass? Oh that's right, you're the guy who threatens to push people off the chair lift you're sharing if they happen to want to light up a cigarette. I should have expected that kind of response from you. Lighten up would ya? Life's too short dude.

Because WF locals ripped off PARA kids gear during early season point chasing races three straight years. I know because they finally caught them selling the gear on eBay. The kids (er, 20-something year old guys) had more than 100 sales of race skis under a half dozen eBay usernames. Wonder why it didn't make the local paper up there?

And, yes, the skis were all locked...cables were cut. Also taken and sold were backpacks with shin guards and a small fortune in HF waxes and overlays. To be clear, my kid's gear was never stolen---I just witnessed devastated kids from our team and state. And WF's response each time was "We're really busy and can't be responsible in any way and don't want to bother cooperating with a police investigation," by refusing to provide any information about times and dates of other thefts. F*ckers.

And just FYI, we hosted a USSA J1/2 race last season at Sno and nobody's gear was stolen. We don't do that sh*t....

My point about 7k sh*tty skiers at WF is this: I've found there are great skiers at huge resorts and there are great skiers at tiny hills. My own opinion is that if you turn your nose up and pass up 50 or 100 days of skiing your local hill to spend 12 at Beaver Creek, I probably have nothing in common with you. Having taught at Hunter and Mount Snow---twin Meccas of the angry unwashed during those years---just might have jaded me toward the pushy 'once a monthers'....but it gave me a great appreciation for the people at the heart of the sport; the race coaches, instructors who actually care about teaching, and the oddballs like GSS who would pass up a sure thing with a top shelf breezy if it meant missing Saturday morning first chair.

Skiing, IMO, isn't so much about where you are but what you've collected along the way. Today, I skied with my daughter's coach's father---an older guy from Germany who grew up on wooden skis and told me how Tuckerman's reminded him of skiing as a kid---his town held an annual race after Easter (too much snow before then). They had to hike the fields for an hour, then climb three hours up the snowfields. He remembered trying to find a short grownup to follow because his stride was so short. The story went on for three chair lifts...how the moguls built as 400 people from town on seven foot skis slid and tumbled down the mountain.

And if it makes me an internet tough guy by believing anyone who sits next to you and lights up a cigarette is a brain dead assh*le, then so be it. Smoke away. Flick your used butts wherever you want...someone will surely clean up after you. And, yes, if they cloud my space with cancer-riddled smoke, they risk being tossed off the lift, perhaps directly onto Greg. FOUR!

So pile on me for not answering HPD? The first response to his post was from the owner giving him crap for 'ghetto speak', followed directly by a "For PA, it's not a bad mountain". Then came more "ghetto speak" comments and then a reference to C.L.I.T.S. By page 4, Madskier6 decided "ski9 started the hijack".

Yeah, okay, whatever.

 

[ski9]

I do. ski9 is your classic internet tough guy/know-it-all.

And the owner quickly turns it into a personal attack. Real special.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

So pile on me for not answering HPD? The first response to his post was from the owner giving him crap for 'ghetto speak', followed directly by a "For PA, it's not a bad mountain". .

When I ask that's usually how people from PA begin or end there answer.

"For PA it has steep trails" or for a "PA area it has great snow." I was just writing about feed back I have gotten. I guess they're trying to keep things relative.

You took from my post what you wanted it to say so you could do your angry man thing.

 

[madskier6]

And if it makes me an internet tough guy by believing anyone who sits next to you and lights up a cigarette is a brain dead assh*le, then so be it. Smoke away. Flick your used butts wherever you want...someone will surely clean up after you. And, yes, if they cloud my space with cancer-riddled smoke, they risk being tossed off the lift, perhaps directly onto Greg. FOUR!

Just to be clear, I'm not a smoker nor do I think it's appealing or appropriate to smoke cigarettes on the lift or in the liftline. I just think it's complete overkill (& actually illegal) to threaten to push someone off a chairlift because they're about to light up a butt. A simple request to not smoke on the chair is more appropriate IMHO. But that's just me.

 

[ski9]

When I ask that's usually how people from PA begin or end there answer.

"For PA it has steep trails" or for a "PA area it has great snow." I was just writing about feed back I have gotten. I guess they're trying to keep things relative.

You took from my post what you wanted it to say so you could do your angry man thing.

Uh, no. I guess you missed the part where I discussed how WF management made it harder for the local cops to nab the local robbers for three years contributing to some really bad times for some really good kids. I readily admit it is difficult to separate certain situations and events, but my personal experience has me pretty sour on WF. And keep in mind, I didn't come here posting about it...the subject just came up, more or less. Along the lines of someone posting they'd never visit some small town, but they live in NY and just wanted to know what the town was like---oh, and some of the people he asks had been mugged three times in NY and the mayor didn't want to help the cops.

That's the angry man thing? Okay.

 

[ski9]

Just to be clear, I'm not a smoker nor do I think it's appealing or appropriate to smoke cigarettes on the lift or in the liftline. I just think it's complete overkill (& actually illegal) to threaten to push someone off a chairlift because they're about to light up a butt. A simple request to not smoke on the chair is more appropriate IMHO. But that's just me.

Pro steroids in baseball; pro smoking on the chairlifts while sitting next to strangers; and, are all for locals ripping off skis.

I'm against that stuff. But that's just me.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Uh, no. I guess you missed the part where I discussed how WF management made it harder for the local cops to nab the local robbers for three years contributing to some really bad times for some really good kids. I readily admit it is difficult to separate certain situations and events, but my personal experience has me pretty sour on WF. And keep in mind, I didn't come here posting about it...the subject just came up, more or less. Along the lines of someone posting they'd never visit some small town, but they live in NY and just wanted to know what the town was like---oh, and some of the people he asks had been mugged three times in NY and the mayor didn't want to help the cops.

That's the angry man thing? Okay.

The thread was not about WF it was about PA skiing. Why did you through your anti-WF bias into this thread?

Pro steroids in baseball; pro smoking on the chairlifts while sitting next to strangers; and, are all for locals ripping off skis.

I'm against that stuff. But that's just me.

Steriods and stealing are illegal, smoking outside is not. I've never smoked a day in my life, but I don't get mad at people for doing what they have a legal right to do.

 

[ski9]

Sno Mtn: Haven't been in there in a few years, but you get the distinct feeling they can do much more with what they have in terrain and location. The direct opposite of skiing at Elk, you're in an urban environment when you are there (brand new shopping center adjacent to the hill). When private ownership bought it from county government a few years ago they had a good start, but have stumbled in the last two years. It's clear skiers would have been better served had the experienced ski area organization (Liberty/Whitetail/RoundTop) purchased it rather than the group that actually did, the owners are having money problems paying bills, and don't have a coherent direction in day to day operations.

Jeez, how many message boards do you go around trashing my hill?

Geezer: Dennis won the bidding war. The other bidder wanted to buy it and flip it. Who was that good for? You haven't skied the hill in more than six years and it's "clear skiers would have been better served" if someone else bought it? We got 195 PoleCats and 35 SMI guns to cover 209 acres. We had mid-winter conditions on the entire NF when ALL of your diamonds were closed last January.

You've called Dennis a "criminal" because Philly politicians he had to deal with were crooks and went to jail. Dennis was cleared and the prosecutor was admonished by the judge for dragging a good man through Hell. What, you felt the need to take up the mudslinging?

The new management repaired the pipes that kept the only two mile long runs closed for four seasons. They built the only Superpipe in the region. They opened all the main diamonds this year in NOVEMBER. They are piece by piece building a year 'round resort, with a wave pool and every other summer attraction. The Zip Rider is in, the bumper boats are in, the lazy river is in, and a number of slides are in...

Sno has been far and away a better skiing experience than Montage ever was. I'm there EVERY day. You hack at Sno in several forums, yet you haven't been there in years.

Could they use a few more lights? Uh, yeah, sure. Night racing is tough, but we wear clear goggles. It doesn't change the fact that we skied a foot of billowing, untracked manmade on White Lightning until 11am.

I'd suggest you stop the hate and actually ski what you've been hating on for the last two years. Perhaps you could make an informed post about Sno. But maybe it's best you use your Clapper to turn out your lights and just get some sleep.

Oh, and I like your hill just fine, although they haven't bought a new snow gun since my last season pass...

 

[deadheadskier]

2knees, powhunter and I had a smoke on the chairlift today, not while on steroids though. :lol:

 

[ski9]

Why did you through your anti-WF bias into this thread?

Whatever that means...I can't figure it out.

Steriods and stealing are illegal, smoking outside is not. I've never smoked a day in my life, but I don't get mad at people for doing what they have a legal right to do.

Good for you. I didn't suggest you should throw anyone off a lift. Smokers just don't realize how disgusting they make OTHER people's clothes smell by smoking in close proximity. But isn't littering illegal in NYS? Or do WF smokers eat their butts?



Eh, are we done, yet?

 

[ski9]

2knees, powhunter and I had a smoke on the chairlift today, not while on steroids though. :lol:

I heard you swallow, so there wasn't a crime...




NO, just kidding. Sorry, dead...I'll shut up.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Whatever that means...I can't figure it out.

I wrote through instead of throw, let me try again. The thread was about PA skiing, no one wrote anything about WF. Why did you bring up your anti-WF sentiment in this thread?

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Time to make some popcorn..

 

[ski9]

I wrote through instead of throw, let me try again. The thread was about PA skiing, no one wrote anything about WF. Why did you bring up your anti-WF sentiment in this thread?

"We get our fair share of people from Pennsylvania vacationing in Whiteface/Lake Placid and when I happen to be riding the gondi and talking to them I always ax which one is the best."

Wasn't this your post? Sorry, I thought WF was Whiteface. You're a little confusing HPD...

PA skiing is very much separated by regions. Pocono skiers rarely ski in western PA, or even the southern tier. Someone from Roundtop rarely comes up to Sno. Someone from Seven Springs doesn't travel to Blue. If you ask a Denton skier the best place in PA, he'll probably say Denton. If a PA skier travels, he/she generally heads out of state to the north, or the southern skiers head further south. Yes, there's a higher peak south of PA than KMart. Penn Staters who come from the Poconos will ski Tussey, but sure don't go back after graduation.

So, if you ask the typical Lake Placid visitor the best place in PA, you're mostly getting a very parochial view.

That's why Elk is the magical place. It's tucked up in the NE corner of the state and is a pain in the ass to get to. It's only 20 miles from me as the crow flies, but seems like twice as far. Because they've marketed well, they gained the rep as the best snowmaking and grooming in the state. Ski Mag annually rates them as the Best Snow. It's also unique because it's set above the Poconos, in it's own range called the Endless Mountains. Same exact geological plate, etc, but it sounds better.

The Poconos have Shecky Green...the Endless Mountains have sunsets.

But Elk has lagged in their snowmaking upgrades and blow about 25% the capacity of Sno and about 35% that of CB or Blue.

What's the number one ingredient to snow quality? Skier traffic. Elk just doesn't get scraped off as quickly as Blue or CB. That's their magic. Much less manmade snow and a much smaller grooming fleet. But those same NYC hoards that crowd the slopes and scrape them down to a shiny blue, continue to vote it as the best quality snow.

Elk is Hell on weekend. It is great on weekdays, if the weather has been cold enough for their old guns.

Trackbiker summed up PA skiing as well as anyone. But I'd bet that the vast majority of those gondi people you talk to don't have much of an idea for true comparison.

Lastly, PA skiing is different for everyone. I found a niche in a place that has a 550ft vert headwall (the hill is 1000' vert) that is steeper than most diamonds in VT. There's never anyone else on it and it's open seven days a week until 10pm. There are a dozen top of the line PoleCats lining it and run almost too often. I can park about 20 yards from the top of the headwall and grab a few runs down it after work every night.

 

[ski9]

Time to make some popcorn..

I bet Jeffy's eating popcorn in bed with Tommy.

 

[snoseek]

This thread turned so summerlike.......