VAIL SUCKS

[eatskisleep]

It’s a shame. We drove past in 2019 and my kids saw the slides and asked to go, but we were headed somewhere else. So I said we’d go the following summer. 2020 Closed for Covid. So I said we’d go the next summer. Never re opened. Cranmore summer activities are heaving, so I’m sure Attitash could be profitable if they wanted to.

North Conway is so overcrowded during the summer, there is PLENTY of demand for activities. Attitash could make so much money, but Vail sucks and doesn’t look at the big picture. The alpine slides were so fun, and mountain biking there was amazing too, great tech trails.

 

[deadheadskier]

It's really puzzling to abandon Attitash as the MWV is packed in the summer and is only getting more so. Whole bunch of big new hotels going up.

 

[tumbler]

Economically it's better for them to just operate in the winter. They don't make money on summer activities, that's all they care about. More importantly is that Vail does not care to be a community partner and participate in helping all tourist businesses succeed.

 

[eatskisleep]

True, but all the last owners did operate in the summer, and AFAIK they were able to turn a profit, keep some staff around year-round etc. At the Mecca of mountain biking, Whistler (Vail) definitely makes money on their summer mountain bike operations as well.

 

[2Planker]

The sad part is they used to do a good job at both summer & winter recreation.
Now, they gave up completely on summer and barely get by in the winter....

 

[jimmywilson69]

Tumbler has it correct, they only care about making money. the numbers probably indicated that they made a slight profit but some isn't enough for the Bean counters in Broomfield. I know the summer attractions at Roundtop were actually very much in the black and both Peaks and Vail didn't think it was worth it to operate them.

 

[thebigo]

Attitash was always significantly busier midweek summer compared with midweek winter. Talk to people working in the valley, they make their money in the summer to survive the winter. I suspect the decision to close attitash summer attractions has more to do with liability and metrics. The only metric vail cares about is epic pass sales.

 

[deadheadskier]

Economically it's better for them to just operate in the winter. They don't make money on summer activities, that's all they care about. More importantly is that Vail does not care to be a community partner and participate in helping all tourist businesses succeed.

How do you know they don't make money on summer activities? Do they mothball their western resorts these days too?

I could see the argument for a place like Okemo because Ludlow is dead during summer. The MWV is busier during summer than winter though. If anywhere in the East makes sense for them, it's the MWV.

 

[takeahike46er]

True, but all the last owners did operate in the summer, and AFAIK they were able to turn a profit, keep some staff around year-round etc. At the Mecca of mountain biking, Whistler (Vail) definitely makes money on their summer mountain bike operations as well.

Whistler is a totally different beast. Vail owns numerous hotels, restaurants and rental shops in Whistler and has an opportunity to make money on more than just a ticket to the bike park or the peak 2 peak.

I suspect the juice just isn’t worth the squeeze at Attitash. That doesn’t mean money couldn’t be made, but it might not enough for Vail corporate to justify, especially when they clearly have big opportunities with their winter operations in NH that need some focus.

 

[tumbler]

How do you know they don't make money on summer activities? Do they mothball their western resorts these days too?

I could see the argument for a place like Okemo because Ludlow is dead during summer. The MWV is busier during summer than winter though. If anywhere in the East makes sense for them, it's the MWV.

From being in the biz years ago it costs more to operate the lifts, food, staffing, insurance, equipment than what you are taking in and it was more of a marketing thing to keep people thinking about skiing. Vermont has higher tourism numbers in the summer than they do in the winter but there is so much more to do than take a lift ride or burn off several layers of skin on an alpine slide whereas winter skiing is pretty much it.

I think it sucks that they are not operating in the summer, I was just making the point that they just care about money and paying their dividends and it's an easy thing to cut. As far as summer ops at their western resorts, I'm sure they are open but as we all know they don't give a shit about the east, especially NH.

 

[deadheadskier]

From being in the biz years ago it costs more to operate the lifts, food, staffing, insurance, equipment than what you are taking in and it was more of a marketing thing to keep people thinking about skiing. Vermont has higher tourism numbers in the summer than they do in the winter but there is so much more to do than take a lift ride or burn off several layers of skin on an alpine slide whereas winter skiing is pretty much it.

I think it sucks that they are not operating in the summer, I was just making the point that they just care about money and paying their dividends and it's an easy thing to cut. As far as summer ops at their western resorts, I'm sure they are open but as we all know they don't give a shit about the east, especially NH.

You didn't address my question about why they aren't eliminating summer activities at places like Vail, Beaver Creek and Breckenridge.

I think you meant to say New Hampshire and not Vermont. Certain areas of New Hampshire like North Conway are much busier in summer.

And there are places in NH that run profitable operations in summer. I'm told summer is quite profitable at Gunstock as an example. If it wasn't, the county would moth ball the place in a heartbeat

 

[Edd]

You didn't address my question about why they aren't eliminating summer activities at places like Vail, Beaver Creek and Breckenridge.

I think you meant to say New Hampshire and not Vermont. Certain areas of New Hampshire like North Conway are much busier in summer.

And there are places in NH that run profitable operations in summer. I'm told summer is quite profitable at Gunstock as an example. If it wasn't, the county would moth ball the place in a heartbeat

I can say the enthusiasm for summer ops has its limits with the Gunstock staff. Campground is a moneymaker though.

I‘d say Attitash has more potential than Gunstock for summer ops being in the rough middle of Crawford Notch, Pinkham Notch, and North Conway with how busy it is up there. Getting into restaurants up there in summer is a lot tougher than winter.

 

[Smellytele]

I can say the enthusiasm for summer ops has its limits with the Gunstock staff. Campground is a moneymaker though.

I‘d say Attitash has more potential than Gunstock for summer ops being in the rough middle of Crawford Notch, Pinkham Notch, and North Conway with how busy it is up there. Getting into restaurants up there in summer is a lot tougher than winter.

Gunstock is right next to lake Winnipesauke in the lakes region which is pretty busy in the summer as well

 

[bigbob]

Be glad that Vail continues to invest in upgrades to the mnt for winter sports. One lawsuit due to a summer tourist getting injured due to construction would wipe out any profit made off of summer activities. I am not a fan of Vail, but they continue to invest into Attitash.

 

[Vter]

And/or blantenley lettling a seasoned professional Zip-line Expert Employee
& Husband & Father die because of shear
Negligence

 

[Vter]

And/or allowing a seasoned professional Zip-line Expert Employee
& Husband & Father die.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I know the summer attractions at Roundtop were actually very much in the black and both Peaks and Vail didn't think it was worth it to operate them.

There's likely a margin issue at play here to think about as well. Used to be you could operate slightly profitable & do so for goodwill, that slight financial gain, or just because you thought it was the right thing to do. Now? As a publicly traded company they're not likely going to do anything to harm their financial data/statistics. Wall Street would just view it as a poor ROI & a waste of time & effort.

 

[jimmywilson69]

agree 100% on that. I'm not saying they were more profitable than the winter, season but there was profit. They ran a summer restaurant and bar Fri-Sun out of the tubing lodge which also doubled as the summer hub. There were bands and good crowds. Now its a ghost town. While I get the corporate/wall street slant, it does seem silly that they are "leaving money on the table"

 

[Newpylong]

Peak made money in summer, just like ASC before them, it just wasn't enough money. The P&L doesn't look good to Broomfield showing all those year round employees.

 

[2Planker]

BW is making a go at summer w/ lots of stuff going on.
Gondi rides to the summit restaurant start this weekend.
Not to mention golf, Spa, fly fishing, biking, carriage rides.....