"What if ASC fails?" thread

[KBL Ed]

OK, first I would like to request that this does NOT become a "Bash ASC" thread.

I am interested in people's opinions/theories to the following situation: What if ASC just can't make the payments anymore and goes bankrupt? What do you think would happen and what they would/should do?

Again, PLEASE don't knock ASC just because you think they deserve it. Just give ideas on what they would do. Also, assume ASC is "as is", i.e., their current properties, nothing sold before bankruptcy. Also, assume a bailout from Texas or wherever does not happen.

 

[St. Jerry]

They will probably file for bankruptcy protection, but continue operations. Also will be put up for sale.

 

[Joshua B]

There's even a good chance ASC will weigh in on this topic.

 

[rjc1976]

I have no facts or real reason to back this up, but I just always assumed that ASC would sell off some of their resorts if the the company failed (even if they continued to still operate after bankruptcy).

 

[KBL Ed]

I guess I need to clarify: Of course they will follow the legal steps necessary. I am interested in what you think they should do, strategically. Split into 6 companies? Sell everything except the Canyons?

Put another way: you are made CEO the day after they file the bankruptcy papers. What do you do?

 

[RISkier]

If ASC fails

Interesting question. Don't think it would effect immediate ski area operation much with the exception that investiment in infrastructure will be virtually non-existent. Buyers will be readily be found for places like Killington and Sunday River and these areas may well benefit in the long run. A place like Sugarloaf has the potential to become the largest lost ski area -- everything I've read is that turning a profit there has been very difficult.

 

[ChileMass]

Just saw a TV program a few days ago on one of the Boston stations which interviewed a senior member of Sugarloaf management and asked the same question. The guy replied that they have already looked into local buyers (haven't found one yet, though), but he said they could still stay open even if ASC goes Chapter 11.

 

[pizza]

call me stupid, i'm not sure what you're asking. I see two possibilities. one is from our standpoint, the other is from a business standpoint.

1. what will happen to the ski areas? more accurately, what will ski area customers experience as a result of ASC's bankruptcy?

2. 10 years from now, what will MBA students be interested in when researching the crash and burn of ASC?

 

[Beartrap]

If ASC fails then Mount Snow should be in better hands. I never liked what ASC has done to our ski area's. Less lift and mountain improvements, and more hotels. I never could understand why ignore the mountain for real estate. It's time to take our SKI LTD mountains back from the non- new englanders.

 

[jlangdale]

In my opinion, I think everyone would benefit in Vermont if Mount Snow and Killington were owned by someone else, I mean to say different entities. I love both mountains, I think a single owner for each would do well for these ASC resorts and those that visit. I think each would get more specialized attention and improvements over and above what they might otherwise get through ASC. Just my humble opinion.

 

[ASC]

If ASC fails then Mount Snow should be in better hands. I never liked what ASC has done to our ski area's. Less lift and mountain improvements, and more hotels. I never could understand why ignore the mountain for real estate. It's time to take our SKI LTD mountains back from the non- new englanders.

Then why don't you put together a group and show us all how it is done? I would also venture to say that the majority of business at Mt. Snow is from "non-New-Englanders" - what does that have to do with anything?

 

[jamesdeluxe]

The "bought by locals" scenario has already happened at Sugarbush. What does everyone think about their performance over the past two seasons?

 

[threecy]

Why focus on real estate? They focus on it because that's where the money is. Profit is marginal if any in the ski industry. It's not uncommon to take a loss a few years in a row.

It appears to me one thing that could sink ASC is their infrastructure - the lifts were good 10-20 years ago, however things are starting to age. It amazes me at Kmart/Pico what those lifts are like now, quickly deteriorating.

Keep just the top performing areas and keep them diversified. Maybe the Canyons, Kmart/Pico, Sunday/Sugarloaf. Three unique climates (for instance, Maine is doing well this year, Vermont is down 20-40%, Utah had a great start). Sell off the others, Steamboat, Mt. Snow/Haystack, and Attitash/Bear Peak. I'm not sure what they can pull for those areas, but they should help bring debt to a manageable level.

 

[jlangdale]

The "bought by locals" scenario has already happened at Sugarbush. What does everyone think about their performance over the past two seasons?

Heavily debated to be sure, but I think the new Lincoln Peak lodge will be a sucess because it will be close to the slope and an improvement over the current mountain inn. I doubt this would be occuring had ASC not sold it. Also, I'm guess I can't be sure but there has been verbage here and there to the affect that the owners do not want to necessarily change the valley significantly and seem to at least be somewhat more considerate than what I might otherwise expect from a larger deal like ASC.

Just seems more like when you have local owners perhaps they are here with you, at the mountain and possibly more motivated. I see Winn on the mountain frequently.

 

[teachski]

If ASC fails then Mount Snow should be in better hands. I never liked what ASC has done to our ski area's. Less lift and mountain improvements, and more hotels. I never could understand why ignore the mountain for real estate. It's time to take our SKI LTD mountains back from the non- new englanders.

Then why don't you put together a group and show us all how it is done? I would also venture to say that the majority of business at Mt. Snow is from "non-New-Englanders" - what does that have to do with anything?[/quote]

Could this be because of what they have done to "our mountains"? Is it possible that that is the way that ASC wanted it? Many New Englanders cannot afford to ski at places like Snow and Killington and opt for the places with more reasonable rates, smaller lines and a more traditional NEW ENGLAND feel. I know that I cannot afford to take more than one or two trips per year to places like Snow, Killington and some of the other more comercial Non-ASC places in NE and I make good money. If I were to go to these places more, I would ski a lot less frequently...that would not be a good thing!

Have you ever heard of the K.I.S.S. principle (Keep It Simple Stupid), I think that would apply here. ASC seems to be trying to put skiing out of reach of the middle class worker. They are focusing too much on making their areas mini Taj Mahal's, catering too much to the rich and forgetting all about the locals.

 

[ASC]

ASC seems to be trying to put skiing out of reach of the middle class worker. They are focusing too much on making their areas mini Taj Mahal's, catering too much to the rich and forgetting all about the locals.

:roll: That is just MALARKEY. $299 season passes put skiing out of reach of the middle class? C'mon now teachie. You wanna go on the cheap, get your Mobil discounts, brown-bag yer lunch and don't whine. It costs boatloads of money to put up the superior product that all ASC resorts do. You want second class, go to a low-budget operation like Burke or Magic. I like first class conditions myself :beer:

 

[teachski]

ASC seems to be trying to put skiing out of reach of the middle class worker. They are focusing too much on making their areas mini Taj Mahal's, catering too much to the rich and forgetting all about the locals.

:roll: That is just MALARKEY. $299 season passes put skiing out of reach of the middle class? C'mon now teachie. You wanna go on the cheap, get your Mobil discounts, brown-bag yer lunch and don't whine. It costs boatloads of money to put up the superior product that all ASC resorts do. You want second class, go to a low-budget operation like Burke or Magic. I like first class conditions myself :beer:

Burke and Magic are BOTH great areas and have a lot more REAL skiing to offer than a cookie cutter ASC hill IMO. I've only seen the "CHEAP" ASC passes for mid-week...working people, those not independently wealthy that have to work, can not use that kind of pass. I am a teacher, there is NOTHING offered by ASC areas that accomodate my needs. I cannot ski mid-week! I work in a job where I am required to be there during the week, and when I do have mid-week days off ASC jacks up the price and calls it a HOLIDAY. They have NOTHING for teachers, at least the other areas offer discounts....$10 off with MTA card....20% off with MTA card, etc. and there usually are NO BLACKOUT days for these discounts.

MOBIL discounts! Yeah right....they are only good for MID-WEEK skiing.

I've stayed in ASC lodging before....NO great thing!
IMO ASC does NOT have a superior product...you can find just as good a product, and often better conditions at MANY non-ASC areas! ASC focuses too much on the luxuries, they should focus more on the skiing.
AGAIN, this is just my opinion!

OH, and another thing...DO ASC areas extend professional courtesy? I don't believe so. I am an instructor at a very small central MA area, I used to be a patroller, infact Assistant Patrol Director. I have had letters of introduction and everything and they did not accept them....HECK, even WAWA give a $$$ off discount with a letter.

 

[RJ]

Excuse me ASC, but that $299.00 season pass is only reasonable if you are an individual and own all your gear. If, however, you have three or four kids who need rentals because they will outgrow their gear in a year, your $299.00 pass times 5 or 6 plus the cost of on site rentals adds up to quite a few dollars. I’m not saying that everyone has a Devin right to ski, but spare us the PR about the affordability of skiing with a family. Lift prices have skyrocketed over the past two decades, and although ASC didn’t start the increase, it certainly hasn’t done anything to halt its escalation.

 

[ASC]

AGAIN, this is just my opinion!

You have the right to be wrong. FYI The Sunday River/Attitash $299 pass WORKS WEEKENDS except during the 2 holiday weeks and MLK weekend. The MOBIL discounts work SUNDAYS as well. Boot up, buy a ticket and stop whining. :wink:

 

[Greg]

You have the right to be wrong.

Tha ASC we know and love have returned! :lol: