Kinsman Glade

[Angus]

OK - my son and I were in the whites hiking this weekend and came down the Kinsman Trail to the tram on the descent. Kinsman Trail joins the Glade about 1/2 way down. Who has ever skiied that crazy thing! Really Steep, really tight side to side and lots of trees. Plus, they need to have at least 5-6' of snow to make it skiable - trees, stumps, rocks, ledges and small trees everywhere. Some sections looked manageable but others no way.

 

[thetrailboss]

I recall hiking that same stretch and thinking the same thing...it is rarely open.

 

[Marc]

I'll ski it if Andy volunteers to ski behind me with the camera.


That should make for some uplifting AZ footage. We could all stand to feel just a bit better about ourselves, right?

 

[AdironRider]

This is bar none my favorite trail on the east coast. Incredible from start to finish. I would think they would need at least a foot base to get that thing open.

I was actually lucky enough to get first tracks on it a year ago after a one foot dump. I dont think Ill ever experience a run like that again.

 

[riverc0il]

they would need a lot more than a foot of base to open kinsman, lol. probably closer to at least two. it is a nice glade, starts really mellow then gets really steep with sparse but really thick trees on a narrow channel (the narrowness makes it feel tighter than the glade really is, not a lot of options because untrimmed forest is really thick in those parts). the bottom is to die for where it splits, i seem to always take the left split where it opens up and has that fantastic 6-7' drop to finish. this trail is probably amazing when the snow is fresh and the base is covered. i have skied it with some fresh snow, but i always have gotten base damage. cannon has some really sweet glades, it just takes a massive amount of snow to open them. kinsman is far far far from being my favorite for a variety of reasons, but i really enjoy the run and hope to sample kinsman after some fresh snow without worry of scraping something.

 

[AdironRider]

I suppose I am a little biased, Ill never get a run as good as the pow day I had in there, but its still awesome. Fun to ride the tram and contemplate your accomplishments afterwards as well.

 

[riverc0il]

i'd be lieing if i said i wasn't biased towards the runs i have gotten the most powder turns on. but consistancy of good conditions is really important to me (which was essentially the biggest factor on my season pass decision at jay, especially after this season), so my favorite glade runs are also those that most consistantly deliver. unfortunately, kinsman is anything but consistant or else i might rate it higher. i think out of the four seasons since cannon opened kinsman, two of those seasons the glade was never opened.

 

[AdironRider]

I agree that it never opens. Ive been to Cannon ten or so times in the last 2 years, and it was only open twice. Both times were in the same week period, mid march 2005.

 

[hiroto]

I was lucky

I took my son there in 04/05 season for the first time in more than 10 years and
greeted with empty mountain with a fresh half a foot of snow with Kinsman open
(but not Tramline). It was closed the day before. I remember back in the old days
that I was drooling over the terrain in that area while riding the tram up. So I was
overjoyed when I learned that they cut a new trail there.

My son was 8 and he managed to come down the trail ok. He loved it and I think
we made 3 runs down the trail that day. I loved the trail that it is so long and
maintains a constant pitch over quite bit of verticle. It is also very nice to come out
of the wood right at the entrance of the tram and not going through that stupid flat
part you have to push/skate through to get to the tram.

 

[riverc0il]

if i may rant for a short spell, part of the reason the trail has a hard time retaining good snow is that when it actually does snow, the base is quickly exposed due to tons of people slip sliding down it. i am all for people pushing their boundaries, but if you are slipe sliding an entire trail, you are in over your head and should reconsider trail choices. a steep glade is not the place to be practicing your slip slides. okay, glad i got that off my chest. i got taken out by a boarder side sliping the glade who sliped and slid into me, almost sending me into a tree. so there is some history there

 

[from_the_NEK]

if i may rant for a short spell, part of the reason the trail has a hard time retaining good snow is that when it actually does snow, the base is quickly exposed due to tons of people slip sliding down it. i am all for people pushing their boundaries, but if you are slipe sliding an entire trail, you are in over your head and should reconsider trail choices. a steep glade is not the place to be practicing your slip slides.

A pet peeve of mine as well. Although I have to remind myself that everyone has to learn how to ski this terrain somehow.

 

[riverc0il]

A pet peeve of mine as well. Although I have to remind myself that everyone has to learn how to ski this terrain somehow.

i remind myself of that a lot as well. i don't mind people skiing the goods that have horrible technique, i learned as well at one point. it is 1800 verts of slip sliding that boils me :angry: slip sliding an entire trail isn't learning how to ski it, it is surviving having your butt over your head. :lol: :wink: i hate to say it, but i honestly think cannon needs to double diamond kinsman and tramline. especially kinsman, at least people without the skills can see tramline and know they ain't got it. if they thought they did have it, the opening glade will make them climb outta there lickedy split. but kinsman, they just see a sign for a single black diamond and have no idea what they are getting themselves into. whats worse is that the opening to kinsman glade is really gentle despite being thin, it looks easy to start.

while we all know that ratings are comparable only to each other on a single mountain, i think we need to address public perception here in regards to my hesitent belief that a double diamond rating is needed at cannon. unfortunately, a lot of mountains have gotten carried away with the double diamond rating. trails they don't deserve a black rating (even compared to other trails on the same mountain) get double blacks all the time, it has gotten silly. but it means that some joey skis down groomed avalanche or groomed zoomer at cannon and thinks that those black diamonds much be comparable to something like kinsman. there is a huge difference between the front five and kinsman/tramline, and the ratings unfortunately don't reflect just how big a difference there is. while i REALLY appreciate mountains like mrg and cannon not doing the double diamond thing, i think it may be warrented in cannon's case. mrg is a little more consistent in that there really isn't a huge difference between something like liftline vs fall line or paradise, they all kick like a mule. but cannon's terrain has such a range that three ratings just aren't enough and people get themselves into trouble on kinsman. the counter arguement is that double diamond draws the double dog dare and bragging rights. but i think there would be fewer people going in over there heads with a tougher designation. i am normally the last person to make such a suggestion, for what it is worth.

 

[hiroto]

while we all know that ratings are comparable only to each other on a single mountain, i think we need to address public perception here in regards to my hesitent belief that a double diamond rating is needed at cannon.

Kinsman's entrance already has big yellow sign with scarely sounding warnings all over it. If that doesn't stop people, I doubt black diamind sign would either.

 

[riverc0il]

i didn't think kinsman glade had the same verbage and warnings that tramline had? my recollection may have faded since it has been a year and a half since i have skied either. even if the warnings are on both trails, i still think it would help.

 

[AdironRider]

I would agree, the difference between Tramline and Kinsman compared to the front 5 trails is mind boggling.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

Riv: I've never caught it open. How would Kinsman compare to, say, Dark Wizard?

 

[riverc0il]

MUCH more open than dark wizard. about the same width, a lot steeper. thicker trees but not a huge amount of them. obviously, heck of a lot longer. on a glade difficulty level with dark wizard being a 10, i would give kinsman a 7, maybe 7.5. consider that same scale with goniff at a 6 and say a for something like nightmare glades or twilight zone at a 3-3.5. kinsman is rather similar to goniff actually, just a heck of a lot longer, a tad narrower, and a bit steeper.

 

[salida]

Well I might as well sound off too!

I concur to the utmost, I am for people learning how to ski things, but when you see someone side slipping a whole trail with good snow but not to much cover it peeves me to no end. Just scraping the snow off the sides, yuck. Lots of people say snowboarders ruin snow, yada yada yada. In all reality shitty skiers and boarders ruin snow.

I kind of agree with hiroto, there is plenty of signage at the top of both kinsman and tramline to scare people away. The trails leave from almost the same spot anyways. The signs basically say that if you don't know how to ski you are going to come out hurt from these trails, maybe dead on a bad day...

Anyways, Kinsman is a good trail, tramline is too... if you hit it right. IE the first few down it, after that its rock hoping.

 

[hiroto]

Ok, here are the signs at the entrance to Kinsman. How much more explicit can you get;-)
Maybe only thing missing is a skull mark.

And the trail:

 

[John84]

Sweet pics, anyone have any other pics from inside Kinsman?