• Welcome to AlpineZone, the largest online community of skiers and snowboarders in the Northeast!

    You may have to REGISTER before you can post. Registering is FREE, gets rid of the majority of advertisements, and lets you participate in giveaways and other AlpineZone events!

Vail suspending all ski operations immediately

snoseek

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Messages
6,260
Points
113
Location
NH
I would imagine with regular maintenance that quad at wildcat has many years left right???
All the other lifts there seem pretty old and beat up. Attitash is just fucked at this point. That place needs some serious love.
 

sull1102

Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2010
Messages
737
Points
18
Location
Boston, MA
I would imagine with regular maintenance that quad at wildcat has many years left right???
All the other lifts there seem pretty old and beat up. Attitash is just fucked at this point. That place needs some serious love.

That quad at Wildcat does run year round and has since it was installed so it certainly has a high hour count. You’re probably right though, a good maintenance crew who knows the machine in and out can probably it going for many years to come if parts continue to be available.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone
 

xlr8r

Active member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Messages
945
Points
43
I would imagine with regular maintenance that quad at wildcat has many years left right???
All the other lifts there seem pretty old and beat up. Attitash is just fucked at this point. That place needs some serious love.

At Attitash they should replace the Summit with a HSQ and then move the current triple to replace both of the double doubles. That would solve a lot of Attitash's problems. The doubles rarely get any lines so dropping down from two doubles to a single triple in capacity should not be a problem. Lifts on Bear Peak side are in good shape, although the bear lodge could use a interior revamp.

Crotched's double did get a new drive when the mountain reopened, so most of the mechanics are less than 20 years old. Also Hall lifts were very well built and many of similar vintage are still running, just look at Smuggs.
 

thetrailboss

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
32,329
Points
113
Location
NEK by Birth
At Attitash they should replace the Summit with a HSQ and then move the current triple to replace both of the double doubles. That would solve a lot of Attitash's problems. The doubles rarely get any lines so dropping down from two doubles to a single triple in capacity should not be a problem. Lifts on Bear Peak side are in good shape, although the bear lodge could use a interior revamp.

Crotched's double did get a new drive when the mountain reopened, so most of the mechanics are less than 20 years old. Also Hall lifts were very well built and many of similar vintage are still running, just look at Smuggs.

One would think that with Attitash's location in the MWV, and the year-round business that they "had" built up that Vail would see this as a good investment. That said, I have not skied Attitash in a long time and have not been there in 9 years or so. Had Peak run it into the ground such that the summer business is gone? I know about the drama with the Summit Lift. I also know that they did a lackluster job with one of their hotels on the Bear Peak side.
 

xlr8r

Active member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Messages
945
Points
43
One would think that with Attitash's location in the MWV, and the year-round business that they "had" built up that Vail would see this as a good investment. That said, I have not skied Attitash in a long time and have not been there in 9 years or so. Had Peak run it into the ground such that the summer business is gone? I know about the drama with the Summit Lift. I also know that they did a lackluster job with one of their hotels on the Bear Peak side.

Peak did add a zipline and expand mountain biking to Bear Peak in recent years, but I have no idea how well they do business wise in the summer. Peak let go of any remaining stake in the Grand Summit, it is now entirely owned and operated by the timeshare owners. Prior to Covid, I really thought that business at Attitash will grow under Vail as there is really no more growth left in the Epic Pass resorts in Vermont, all three are maxed out capacity wise. Attititash therefore is the overflow destination resort that Boston area families might turn to to avoid the crowds at Mount Snow, Okemo, and Stowe. Now with Covid, who knows.
 

EPB

Active member
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Messages
966
Points
28
Peak did add a zipline and expand mountain biking to Bear Peak in recent years, but I have no idea how well they do business wise in the summer. Peak let go of any remaining stake in the Grand Summit, it is now entirely owned and operated by the timeshare owners. Prior to Covid, I really thought that business at Attitash will grow under Vail as there is really no more growth left in the Epic Pass resorts in Vermont, all three are maxed out capacity wise. Attititash therefore is the overflow destination resort that Boston area families might turn to to avoid the crowds at Mount Snow, Okemo, and Stowe. Now with Covid, who knows.

Agreed My guess has been the plan was to try to drive as much Boston area weekend traffic to the MWV/Stowe as possible given how big crowds have reportedly gotten at Snow and Okemo. Vail had/has an acreage problem in VT.

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app
 

EPB

Active member
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Messages
966
Points
28
I would imagine with regular maintenance that quad at wildcat has many years left right???
All the other lifts there seem pretty old and beat up. Attitash is just fucked at this point. That place needs some serious love.
The guy who built New England Ski History and related sites used to post here a lot. From what I remember, he had industry experience and said that running lifts above freezing depreciates them much faster than when running them below freezing in normal winter conditions.

When you look at how many places have replaced their mid/late 80s era high speed lifts that didn't run long summer hours, it makes me wonder how much gas the 1997 Wildcat Express has in the tank.

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app
 

ss20

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
3,919
Points
113
Location
A minute from the Alta exit off the I-15!
The guy who built New England Ski History and related sites used to post here a lot. From what I remember, he had industry experience and said that running lifts above freezing depreciates them much faster than when running them below freezing in normal winter conditions.

When you look at how many places have replaced their mid/late 80s era high speed lifts that didn't run long summer hours, it makes me wonder how much gas the 1997 Wildcat Express has in the tank.

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app

I've never heard about lift maintenance regarding temperatures. I can see in warmer temps the lubricant on the sheaves wears faster and perhaps leading to early sheave re-builds but that's hypothetical on my end.

Truthfully I find this hard to believe, where's Newpylong?
 

thetrailboss

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
32,329
Points
113
Location
NEK by Birth
I've never heard about lift maintenance regarding temperatures. I can see in warmer temps the lubricant on the sheaves wears faster and perhaps leading to early sheave re-builds but that's hypothetical on my end.

Truthfully I find this hard to believe, where's Newpylong?

I'm skeptical as well.
 

jimmywilson69

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Messages
3,176
Points
113
Location
Dillsburg, PA
yeah I've never heard of something degrading faster when running in warm temperatures. I would think the colder temperatures would be much harder on it. I've also never designed, constructed, or operated a lift :lol:
 

tumbler

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
1,404
Points
83
My guess is it has to do with keeping the motor room cool.
 

EPB

Active member
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Messages
966
Points
28
My guess is it has to do with keeping the motor room cool.
I took a quick look to try to find it and came up empty. I thought the gist was that lifts like the one at wildcat are designed to be run in cold weather. Tensioning and sheave wear might have been it, but this was probably 8-10 years ago and I don't recall exactly. This is certainly not in my wheelhouse.

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app
 

ss20

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
3,919
Points
113
Location
A minute from the Alta exit off the I-15!
Perhaps it was regarding older detachable lifts. Most of the detach lifts from the 80s use mechanical chain-like systems to accelerate/deccelerate and move the cabins/chairs through the terminals. My understanding is that extreme enough temperatures will cause the "chain system" to shrink in the cold and that messes things up. Hence on any modern detachable you'll see tires used to move the carrier through the terminal.

The only lifts here in the East I can think of that still use this method are Stratton's gondola and the North Ridge chair at Sugarbush. There's definitely more, those are just the ones I can think of at the moment.
 

EPB

Active member
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Messages
966
Points
28
Perhaps it was regarding older detachable lifts. Most of the detach lifts from the 80s use mechanical chain-like systems to accelerate/deccelerate and move the cabins/chairs through the terminals. My understanding is that extreme enough temperatures will cause the "chain system" to shrink in the cold and that messes things up. Hence on any modern detachable you'll see tires used to move the carrier through the terminal.

The only lifts here in the East I can think of that still use this method are Stratton's gondola and the North Ridge chair at Sugarbush. There's definitely more, those are just the ones I can think of at the moment.
I bet there are a few in Quebec (Sainte Anne comes to mind, but I bet a few in the eastern townships and Saint Sauveur have them). Hunter's North side quad is quite old, too.

Hopefully for the industry's sake, the 90s and onward detachable models can be maintained less expensively than the more novel 80s models.

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app
 

kbroderick

Active member
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
708
Points
43
Location
Maine
I bet there are a few in Quebec (Sainte Anne comes to mind, but I bet a few in the eastern townships and Saint Sauveur have them). Hunter's North side quad is quite old, too.

Hopefully for the industry's sake, the 90s and onward detachable models can be maintained less expensively than the more novel 80s models.

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app

I think it's worth noting that there are a lot of fixed-grip lifts that are more or less ancient but still functioning on a daily basis throughout the country. With regular maintenance (some of which is admittedly major) and upkeep, many ski areas—especially those with smaller capex budgets—have pretty good reliability records with such lifts. If you don't need more uphill capacity or a quicker uphill trip, they often work pretty damn well.

I'd be hopeful that as detachable-lift tech has matured, the same will become true for detachable lifts.

I'd name a few that I've skied at, but I'd be afraid I might jinx something.
 

xlr8r

Active member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Messages
945
Points
43
The Wildcat Express does still regularly run at 1100 ft/min, at least on the days I was there this past year. This implies that the lift is still in good shape and very well maintained. If the lift was starting to get old and worn, Wildcat would run it at a slower speed. In fact most HSQs only have a top speed of 1000 ft/min, and most are regularly run at only 800 or 900 ft/min.
 

thebigo

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2005
Messages
1,869
Points
113
Location
NH seacoast
I have always wondered about hsdq speed. There are definitely some that feel slower: White peaks, Peabody, panorama, superstar and bear are some the come to mind. Whereas wildcat, yankee, spear and rocket leave the opposite impression.
 

andrec10

Active member
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
2,240
Points
38
Location
Hyde Park, NY...Hunter on Weekends in the Winter..
I bet there are a few in Quebec (Sainte Anne comes to mind, but I bet a few in the eastern townships and Saint Sauveur have them). Hunter's North side quad is quite old, too.

Hopefully for the industry's sake, the 90s and onward detachable models can be maintained less expensively than the more novel 80s models.



Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app


You mean Hunter West. It was upgraded to tires from chains when it was moved from the front side. Hunter North is a brand new 6 pack from Leitner Poma.
 

sull1102

Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2010
Messages
737
Points
18
Location
Boston, MA
I have always wondered about hsdq speed. There are definitely some that feel slower: White peaks, Peabody, panorama, superstar and bear are some the come to mind. Whereas wildcat, yankee, spear and rocket leave the opposite impression.

Funny, I feel like White Peaks is quick but Panorama took a good bit. Probably felt that way due to White Peaks being essentially base to summit while Panorama is “mid mountain.”


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone
 

EPB

Active member
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Messages
966
Points
28
You mean Hunter West. It was upgraded to tires from chains when it was moved from the front side. Hunter North is a brand new 6 pack from Leitner Poma.

Exactly. I get way more confused with the directions at Hunter than I should.
 
Top