Ragged gets a new GM

[sugarbushskier]

Yeah ragged skied real good today!

Heading to NH this week for our annual "Indy Trip", although this year we're incorporating BW and Loon into it for variety.

Question: Now that Ragged is Indy we'd like to include it, but see that winds on Tuesday are forecasted to be 15-25 w gusts to 40mph. What's the lift situation at Ragged? In other words, are they very susceptible to wind? Are the lifts protected by the rope height or trees? Any intel is appreciated.

 

[thebigo]

Ragged listed for sale:

Ragged Mountain Resort

www.cbredealflow.com

CBRE: Ragged Mountain Real Estate Offering Brought to Market

CBRE Golf & Resort Group announces the offering of the Ragged Mountain Ski Resort and its surrounding 1,900 acres of land in Danbury, N.H.

www.cbre.com

The approximately 1,900-acre fee-simple offering at Ragged Mountain includes two major components – Ragged Mountain Resort and the surrounding 443 acres of development land with entitlements for 870 Equivalent Residential Units (ERUs). The land and assets offered are owned by two separate entities with different, yet affiliated ownership. They will be available both independently and simultaneously in this offering. RM Devco owns the prime base area development land (245 ERUs) including two hotel pads at the base parking area, while SRK LLC owns all the remaining developable land (625 ERUs) and ski operations land, buildings, & equipment.



Ski Resort

• The ski operations at Ragged Mountain Resort feature 57 trails across 250 acres, including groomed trails with 85% coverage by snowmaking.
• The base area includes several buildings: the four-story, 19,000 square foot “Meeting House,” the three-story, 35,000 square foot “Elmwood Lodge,” and the 1,000 square foot Ticketing Office.

 

[Cheetah440]

Urgh, sad news. That means most likely they are struggling. Such a great place, needs Deep pockets. Prob a casualty of Vail poaching Sunapee and Crotched. Hat to even think of Alterra buying them, they sick too. Sad to see it go if it does. Hope not.

 

[thebigo]

'For sale' is different than 'sold'. Who knows what they are asking?

Ragged would round out the ikon pass for the boston crowd if alterra is interested. May also serve as a pressure relief for loon on busy weekends if boyne is interested. Fits boyne expand and sell house lots model.

 

[snoseek]

This really bums me out tbh. It's been the perfect little area

 

[Cheetah440]

'For sale' is different than 'sold'. Who knows what they are asking?

Ragged would round out the ikon pass for the boston crowd if alterra is interested. May also serve as a pressure relief for loon on busy weekends if boyne is interested. Fits boyne expand and sell house lots model.

Reading they had 100k skier visits for the first time. Would have to think Alterra would be interested. Not sure how so feel about it but Ragged has always struggled, needs a wealthy benefactor. Someone with deep pockets could really make that place special, but not sure it would be a money maker.

 

[Abubob]

As long as it doesn’t affect the reciprocal tickets with Jay.

 

[deadheadskier]

Reading they had 100k skier visits for the first time. Would have to think Alterra would be interested. Not sure how so feel about it but Ragged has always struggled, needs a wealthy benefactor. Someone with deep pockets could really make that place special, but not sure it would be a money maker.

If they hadn't broken 100k skier visits prior, I'd be surprised. They came close 2004-6 seasons

Ragged Mountain Resort History - New Hampshire - NewEnglandSkiHistory.com

From everything I've heard they've been busier than they've ever been the past few years.

 

[machski]

Wonder if she me of this has to do with the EB-5 fallout. Mentioned several lawsuits associated with non-built but EB-5 pushed projects.

 

[Newpylong]

I can tell you point blank the ski area itself is profitable and is not struggling. The reasons for trying to sell are as of yet unknown but will do some digging.

 

[sull1102]

I wonder how this will impact Indy Pass for next year.

 

[Abubob]

I’m gonna guess no impact on the 25-26 season because they’re selling passes that already include certain “products” and/or reciprocals. That includes the Indy passes. They’re sold as a package deal. Any buyer would have to honor those.

 

[deadheadskier]

Interesting. I guess this was in fact the first 100k skier visit year for them.

Ragged Mountain Resort is for sale as it turns 60

It’s an interesting time for Ragged Mountain Resort in Danbury, which is holding its 60th birthday party this weekend after enjoying a record ski season – because it’s also for sale.

www.concordmonitor.com

Article says it's owned individually by Doug Anderson, a co-founder of Pacific Group. Perhaps he simply wants to get out of the business and can't come to buyout terms with Mark Fischer, so Doug is testing the open market.

Pacific Group Resort, LLC.'s Executive Team | Pacific Group Resorts, LLC.

Discover the Pacific Group Resorts, LLC. Executive Team and their relevant brief background notes that inform the business.

www.pgri.us

Ragged is kind of a weird one like Crotched. It has a good location and yet it also doesn't. The final stretch of roads to get to them from the metros are a pain in the ass for both. Same could also be said for Sunapee (to a lesser extent), but Sunapee is a more desirable second home location due to the lake. Ragged has Newfound Lake, but that lake is a bit further from the ski area than Lake Sunapee and has less second home development opportunities.

Let's hope the buyer is ABV (Anyone But Vail).

 

[Newpylong]

My concern is they will have no problem whatsoever finding a buyer and that buyer is going to make a substantial investment and thus look for a higher return than PGR was. That will mean increased costs and the loss of an affordable "secret"(even though it's kinda not anymore).

 

[Cheetah440]

I can tell you point blank the ski area itself is profitable and is not struggling. The reasons for trying to sell are as of yet unknown but will do some digging.

Well that is great news. I always loved it when it was busy and the lines were long hoping they were making money. Place is a gem, just a shame there’s been ZERO development in the area. Not talking a Starbucks, but come on, you need SOME development. Or Ragged will eventually die.

 

[Cheetah440]

Interesting. I guess this was in fact the first 100k skier visit year for them.

Ragged Mountain Resort is for sale as it turns 60

It’s an interesting time for Ragged Mountain Resort in Danbury, which is holding its 60th birthday party this weekend after enjoying a record ski season – because it’s also for sale.

www.concordmonitor.com

Article says it's owned individually by Doug Anderson, a co-founder of Pacific Group. Perhaps he simply wants to get out of the business and can't come to buyout terms with Mark Fischer, so Doug is testing the open market.

Pacific Group Resort, LLC.'s Executive Team | Pacific Group Resorts, LLC.

Discover the Pacific Group Resorts, LLC. Executive Team and their relevant brief background notes that inform the business.

www.pgri.us

Ragged is kind of a weird one like Crotched. It has a good location and yet it also doesn't. The final stretch of roads to get to them from the metros are a pain in the ass for both. Same could also be said for Sunapee (to a lesser extent), but Sunapee is a more desirable second home location due to the lake. Ragged has Newfound Lake, but that lake is a bit further from the ski area than Lake Sunapee and has less second home development opportunities.

Let's hope the buyer is ABV (Anyone But Vail).

Yeah, dead middle of nowhere. Been no development at all which makes it really impossible to be anything but a day trip destination. Too bad the local community won’t have any forethought to have some smart restricted growth to enable the place to grow in a sustainable way. There is a ton of potential to be so much more.
The golf course was always dumb.anyone who holds will tell you it was dumb.

 

[deadheadskier]

My concern is they will have no problem whatsoever finding a buyer and that buyer is going to make a substantial investment and thus look for a higher return than PGR was. That will mean increased costs and the loss of an affordable "secret"(even though it's kinda not anymore).

It could be still within the realm of possibility that PGR buys it. It could be that Anderson is just trying to get PGR to pay him more.

It would make total sense to me that PGR tries to keep it. It would only serve to drive more Boston business to Jay. A lot of people don't want to commit to a 4 hour drive plus overnights every weekend to ski. I know I always want to have that quick hitter option. Ragged was exactly that for me for a couple of years. 2008-2010 I did Ragged + Fox44 + SkiVT + other deals that were easy to find on GroupOn, Liftopia etc.

 

[AdironRider]

If PGR was going to buy it they would have before this going public.

Something tells me they either have a decent length remaining on their lease of the area, or this talk of profitability is all bs (or like they made a whopping 10k). Either way, the reality is most likely Ragged is a dog of an asset. PGR would rather just skim their percentage off the top and let the new owner take on all the risk.

1) Its in the part of NH where they sent Walter White to hole up for a while. The place is never going to bring any real money in terms of real estate investment.
2) The developable real estate won't cash flow at current costs to develop. Even for the slopeside townhouse units cost to build is probably a minimum 100k over market value.
3) The snow sucks. This was about as good a year as it gets snow wise and the glades were skiable like for two weeks. The future does not look bright for the Upper Valley and adjacent areas in this regard and will only require higher operating costs to run more snowmaking. With no glade skiing or natural terrain Ragged is pretty meh terrain wise.
4) The clientele is not viable for long term appreciation. You aren't getting a bunch of Kia customers to suddenly pay Mercedes prices. If Ragged didn't have the infrastructure and maintenance costs of multiple high speed lifts I might say this model would work, but the place is going to need 50 mill plus over the next 20 years just to maintain the status quo and they aren't getting that from a bunch of retirees that are searching for a deal and either don't want to drive to Cannon or are Mass residents and don't get to ski free at Cannon. I skied Ragged Tuesday and Middlebury Wednesday and they had basically the same number of people at each. That isn't good for Ragged which costs twice as much to operate.
5) I don't think PGR actually invests much in mountains (they apparently bailed on the six at Jay and rely on "wind holds" to shut down main lifts any chance they can to save money) and they seem to run things pretty thin. There are gremlins lurking beneath the surface here.

Ultimately I see Ragged and Burke as very similar. Mountains that have delusions of grandeur and lots of capital costs but clientele (and most importantly their potential market capacity) that will not support their needs. Dare I say it, but Ragged is a place that is going to get put out of business by the Indy pass. The venn diagram of a Ragged customer and an Indy Pass customer is like a perfect circle and most are probably going Indy.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

interesting. still really eager to check out ragged but want to do so when the tree skiing is available. i'm obviously biased but if its not gonna stay independent then im all for alterra expanding its new hampshire footprint and giving me another access point at the 5 hour drive mark

 

[Cheetah440]

interesting. still really eager to check out ragged but want to do so when the tree skiing is available. i'm obviously biased but if its not gonna stay independent then im all for alterra expanding its new hampshire footprint and giving me another access point at the 5 hour drive mark

The tree skiing when they have proper snow is outstanding. While smaller, what it has can rival all the big mountains. But they don’t get the snow MRV gets, so realistically you have 3-6 good weeks of woods per season. The groomers are groomers, no bump runs at all, except they seed one under the 6 pack for the last couple of weeks.