Ragged gets a new GM

[deadheadskier]

I think it's about finding balance between needed depth to last the season and also expanding terrain to handle the crowds. It sounds like they could focus a bit more on expansion than they have been doing

I mention Gunstock as it's where I left Ragged for years ago for a couple of seasons. I then did Peak / Epic for a decade. When I wasn't happy with Vail, I ended up going Gunstock / Indy vs Ragged / Indy and that was partially because of a 30 minute shorter commute, but more so to do with Gunstock having a better snowmaking program.

I would think that Ragged's two closest competitors are Gunstock and Crotched. People say Sunapee, but they are still a much larger and more sophisticated operation. If I were a full time Ragged skier, I would bother me seeing how much further ahead Gunstock is given the same weather. For Xmas week Gunstock should be at about 50% of their terrain and it's not like they're skim coating to get things open.

 

[Newpylong]

It is objectively the most cost efficient to blow a trail completely then move on. Even with fixed gear you still need to charge lines, patrol needs to block stuff off, groomers only have to push it out once, etc. Yes, that means they don't expand in terms of trail count as quickly, but the product is better and the cost savings still matter for a place like Ragged.

Frankly, Newpy is not an unbiased voice here. He talked some real shit about Black until they started cutting him checks and now they are the bees knees for example. This really comes off as sour grapes.

No. They primarily do it because they don't own any in house air and need to be done by the end of January when the rentals turn to pumpkins. So, they hammer the shit out of everything before moving on to survive nearly any type of warm up so they do not need to go back, because they can't. It is a different philosophy than nearly every other player (because everyone else owns a large portion of their air compression) and one I have been highly critical at times. Erik stated that the long term plan is to build their own air plant, so perhaps this changes in the future.

Beyond that gripe, I can't say enough good things about Ragged and my comments in this thread reflect that. My choice to not have a pass this year was financial (I am now divorced), has nothing to do with the product. My two children still get passes there because they come reduced in price with their seasonal leases. I will go on Indy or the NH half days.

Your last paragraph frankly was uncalled for, and false.

I do not work for Black - I work AT Black as subbed out labor part time. They do not cut me any checks and I see plenty of stuff going on there that I do not agree with. I went back through the 15 pages of thread on Black Mountain and there is very little I would change in what I said. I see no "real shit" being talked, I see objective facts provided.

 

[snoseek]

Why aren't we skiing those giant whales blown down the front today? It's giving me post vail attitash vibes.

I bought this pass as a close option vs gunstock mostly because of value. Gunstock midweek is pricy. I also bought it because when it's good snow this place skis fantastic. I'll probably stay over at cannon till more opens here.

 

[AdironRider]

I think it's about finding balance between needed depth to last the season and also expanding terrain to handle the crowds. It sounds like they could focus a bit more on expansion than they have been doing

I mention Gunstock as it's where I left Ragged for years ago for a couple of seasons. I then did Peak / Epic for a decade. When I wasn't happy with Vail, I ended up going Gunstock / Indy vs Ragged / Indy and that was partially because of a 30 minute shorter commute, but more so to do with Gunstock having a better snowmaking program.

I would think that Ragged's two closest competitors are Gunstock and Crotched. People say Sunapee, but they are still a much larger and more sophisticated operation. If I were a full time Ragged skier, I would bother me seeing how much further ahead Gunstock is given the same weather. For Xmas week Gunstock should be at about 50% of their terrain and it's not like they're skim coating to get things open.

I agree it is definitely a balance between depth and opening for crowds. I have to imagine Gunstock does significantly more business than Ragged currently, which I'm sure plays a role in terms from snowmaking budget to operations decisions.

I actually don't think there is a ton of overlap between the two in terms of competition, mainly due to Ragged's sub par location in terms of travel from major population centers. Gunstock ultimately has a better base to draw from with all the second homeowners by the lake, as well as being easier to get to from the Seascoast / Mass.

 

[AdironRider]

No. They primarily do it because they don't own any in house air and need to be done by the end of January when the rentals turn to pumpkins. So, they hammer the shit out of everything before moving on to survive nearly any type of warm up so they do not need to go back, because they can't. It is a different philosophy than nearly every other player (because everyone else owns a large portion of their air compression) and one I have been highly critical at times. Erik stated that the long term plan is to build their own air plant, so perhaps this changes in the future.

Beyond that gripe, I can't say enough good things about Ragged and my comments in this thread reflect that. My choice to not have a pass this year was financial (I am now divorced), has nothing to do with the product. My two children still get passes there because they come reduced in price with their seasonal leases. I will go on Indy or the NH half days.

Your last paragraph frankly was uncalled for, and false.

I do not work for Black - I work AT Black as subbed out labor part time. They do not cut me any checks and I see plenty of stuff going on there that I do not agree with. I went back through the 15 pages of thread on Black Mountain and there is very little I would change in what I said. I see no "real shit" being talked, I see objective facts provided.

Rented compressors are par for the course at plenty of mountains Ragged's size and smaller. It does seem odd to me they don't own at least one though.

In terms of your comments, don't throw stones in glass houses I guess. You aren't providing objective facts but rather just playing favorites to who is paying your freight. You are very clearly are biased in terms of this realm.

 

[deadheadskier]

I agree it is definitely a balance between depth and opening for crowds. I have to imagine Gunstock does significantly more business than Ragged currently, which I'm sure plays a role in terms from snowmaking budget to operations decisions.

I actually don't think there is a ton of overlap between the two in terms of competition, mainly due to Ragged's sub par location in terms of travel from major population centers. Gunstock ultimately has a better base to draw from with all the second homeowners by the lake, as well as being easier to get to from the Seascoast / Mass.

I would be curious how close they are in terms of skier visits. Gunstock does limit capacity and hence is never all that crowded. At least compared to a place like say Sunapee. I haven't skied Ragged on a busy weekend day in 15 years, so I have no clue how busy they are lately. I had heard considerably more busy than when I was there 2008-2010.

You are right in that Gunstock has all of the local second home owners to sell to that Ragged does not. Well kinda. Some areas of the lake such as Moultonborough have almost the same commute to Ragged as Gunstock.

I guess overall I'm just surprised that early season expansion is still such an issue there. Expansion was almost as big of a complaint as the Spear Triple. I would have thought it would have been fixed by now.

 

[AdironRider]

It definitely seems to be the new ownership group's thing. Jay does a lot of the same, burying a trail before moving on. Jay also gets to rely on copious natural snowfall which def makes things easier.

 

[snoseek]

On a positive note I don't think I've ever seen a better effort to keep a lodge clean and tidy. People walking around all day with a cloth and sprayer wiping down everything imaginable. It's an exceptionally nice lodge inside. 650 for a 16 oz coors light is reasonable.

 

[Newpylong]

Rented compressors are par for the course at plenty of mountains Ragged's size and smaller. It does seem odd to me they don't own at least one though.

In terms of your comments, don't throw stones in glass houses I guess. You aren't providing objective facts but rather just playing favorites to who is paying your freight. You are very clearly are biased in terms of this realm.

In one ear, out the other with you.

 

[Newpylong]

On a positive note I don't think I've ever seen a better effort to keep a lodge clean and tidy. People walking around all day with a cloth and sprayer wiping down everything imaginable. It's an exceptionally nice lodge inside. 650 for a 16 oz coors light is reasonable.

The place is a well-oiled machine top to bottom and that has somehow transcended 4 GMs since I have been skiing there. They have good departmental managers. Everyone thought they would implode when Alan left but John has really stepped it up Operations wise. That's why they continue to be popular when there are arguably "bigger and better" mountains nearby.

 

[machski]

What other areas? I’ve haven’t heard of anyone do that.

And — what deadheadskier said vvv



I don’t think the capacity is exactly bottomless. Don’t they just pull from the top pond and then refill it? Probably don’t have the capacity to do everything simultaneously.

btw Wildside was fully lit. One cannon at the base of Newfound.

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What? SR, Killington, Loon, to name a few will make trails to minimum coverage, move on to open more terrain and come back later to add depth and/or width for the early trails. Not many areas hit a trail once and never return, especially their early opening runs.

 

[skiur]

Killington used to do that but lately they have been hitting a trail fully before moving on.

 

[drjeff]

Killington used to do that but lately they have been hitting a trail fully before moving on.

I think that you are starting to see some areas taking a bit more time on the opening up snowmaking assault for a trail as it seems more likely that you will get a few rounds of warm and wet weather in the month or so between Thanksgiving and Christmas than in the past. And having enough base down so that recovery can often be managed with grooming verses having to resurface and groom seems to allow them to move on to expansion mode sooner after a thaw/freeze up than if they have to resurface open terrain before moving into expansion mode for that all so important Christmas Week of business

 

[KustyTheKlown]

i have never opened this thread.

i just realized ragged is on indy now. i just looked at the trail map and i see two ~1200 vert high speed chairs and a shit load of glades

i assume its worth my time. would appreciate any quick intel. no specific questions.

 

[Newpylong]

Glades are amazing, especially in the "ravine" between both peaks - but unfortunately, they miss a lot of the brunt of storms.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

Glades are amazing, especially in the "ravine" between both peaks - but unfortunately, they miss a lot of the brunt of storms.

yea, very low. 2300. lower than loon lower than magic. like berkshire east low almost.

looks worth a visit in prime mid season tho. could see myself staying in gorham and doing sunday river on saturday and hitting this instead of loon on the way back south sunday

 

[thebigo]

For what you describe 100% skip loon and go to ragged. Ragged trees are some of the best in the east, problem is rain/snow line tends to set up exactly over ragged. When they do get snow it is often followed by hot rain and a hard freeze.

 

[Killingtime]

i have never opened this thread.

i just realized ragged is on indy now. i just looked at the trail map and i see two ~1200 vert high speed chairs and a shit load of glades

i assume its worth my time. would appreciate any quick intel. no specific questions.

Ragged had a booth at Snowbound in Boston. Fun event btw. They were pretty excited about the coming season. I already booked a hotel nearby to use an Indy day.

 

[Abubob]

What? SR, Killington, Loon, to name a few will make trails to minimum coverage, move on to open more terrain and come back later to add depth and/or width for the early trails. Not many areas hit a trail once and never return, especially their early opening runs.

Deadheads comparison to Gunstock is a better example. You‘re putting Ragged against Killington? That’s like comparing Concord to NYC.

 

[thebigo]

Just found out daughter is at proctor Friday and I have to drive the bus. Any of you ragged passholders willing to PM a buddy code?