Cannon Lover's Thread

[deadheadskier]

From a skiing perspective, I think a Gondola would make Cannon a stronger competitor against Waterville than a Tram would.

I think Sununu's opinion is based off of two things.

1. He knows, as every skier does, that Trams have a fraction of the capacity as a Gondola does. The only real advantages a Tram has is wind resilience and perhaps they can go up steeper inclines. But overall, Gondolas are a better lift design for skiing than a Tram.

2. He's a fiscal conservative and a Tram would cost taxpayers significantly less than a Tram.

 

[drjeff]

I feel like you had to take Sununu’s opinion with a grain of salt, given his family owns and operates a very close direct competitor to Cannon in Waterville.

A gondola is not nearly the draw of a tram, especially in summer.

100% agree

Heck photos of the tram near the summit of Cannon in both Fall foliage and ski seasons have been a staple of the State of NH tourism marketing campaigns for decades

 

[urungus]

From a skiing perspective, I think a Gondola would make Cannon a stronger competitor against Waterville than a Tram would.

I think Sununu's opinion is based off of two things.

1. He knows, as every skier does, that Trams have a fraction of the capacity as a Gondola does. The only real advantages a Tram has is wind resilience and perhaps they can go up steeper inclines. But overall, Gondolas are a better lift design for skiing than a Tram.

Skiers are not the primary users of the tram.

 

[Newpylong]

Nor is the trail topology really configured (or even possible?) to get enough traffic down to Tram Base to take advantage of the higher capacity of a gondy.

 

[deadheadskier]

Skiers are not the primary users of the tram.

I 100% get that. I was speculating that Sununu is only looking at this from a skier's and Fiscal conservative's perspective. What kind of lift is better for skiing and costs less? That's the mindset I think he has.

Newpylong makes a good point that the trail topography doesn't support a higher capacity lift need.

One thing I'd like to address though is the notion that a Tram would draw more sight seeing traffic than a Gondola. Do we know this is true? I get that a Tram is more unique, but personally I'd take a scenic Gondola ride every day over a Tram. There are many reasons it's a better configuration.

1. Everyone gets a seat
2. Everyone gets a view. If you're not against the window of a Tram, you're kinda SOL unless you're tall.
3. You're more likely to get a private ride with your friends and family vs sharing with strangers.

 

[oldfartrider]

I 100% get that. I was speculating that Sununu is only looking at this from a skier's and Fiscal conservative's perspective. What kind of lift is better for skiing and costs less? That's the mindset I think he has.

Newpylong makes a good point that the trail topography doesn't support a higher capacity lift need.

One thing I'd like to address though is the notion that a Tram would draw more sight seeing traffic than a Gondola. Do we know this is true? I get that a Tram is more unique, but personally I'd take a scenic Gondola ride every day over a Tram. There are many reasons it's a better configuration.

1. Everyone gets a seat
2. Everyone gets a view. If you're not against the window of a Tram, you're kinda SOL unless you're tall.
3. You're more likely to get a private ride with your friends and family vs sharing with strangers.

True nobody is sitting but everyone has a view. Riding up in the off season is not like a crowded winter ride. At best there might be 15 people per car, everyone has a view and a much better view than a low to the ground gondola. You can also get a narrated ride from the tram operator or at least allot of information that can make it a special experience. With a gondola you're competing with Loon and Bretton Woods for a not so special experience. I agree a gondola makes more sense for skiing but it's in the wrong place on the mountain.

 

[Abubob]

Politics and sentimentality aside I think anyone in the ski industry agrees a gondola would be a better option.

 

[AdironRider]

I 100% get that. I was speculating that Sununu is only looking at this from a skier's and Fiscal conservative's perspective. What kind of lift is better for skiing and costs less? That's the mindset I think he has.

Newpylong makes a good point that the trail topography doesn't support a higher capacity lift need.

One thing I'd like to address though is the notion that a Tram would draw more sight seeing traffic than a Gondola. Do we know this is true? I get that a Tram is more unique, but personally I'd take a scenic Gondola ride every day over a Tram. There are many reasons it's a better configuration.

1. Everyone gets a seat
2. Everyone gets a view. If you're not against the window of a Tram, you're kinda SOL unless you're tall.
3. You're more likely to get a private ride with your friends and family vs sharing with strangers.

Trams are by the more popular draw for sight seeing. You can ride a gondola at a myriad of different places, there are only a few trams, and the novelty aspect drives visitors.

Don’t forget the terrain a tram can go over (notably height) is significant vs a gondola. That helps view and novelty aspects.

The financials at places like Jackson prove this out. It’s not close between the gondola and tram in terms of sight seeing draw. It was so lop sided they made the gondola free just so people would potentially ride it and get lunch at the top.

 

[takeahike46er]

Don’t forget the terrain a tram can go over (notably height) is significant vs a gondola. That helps view and novelty aspects.

Is the terrain really an issue though?

Grouse Mountain in Vancouver just replaced one of their trams with a gondola and its lift line is steeper and has a greater vertical than Cannon’s.

 

[takeahike46er]

I’m also not convinced the draw of a tram is worth the cost. If they were, I would expect to see more of them. For example, in BC alone there are two scenic gondolas planned: one in the Okanagan (not far from Silver Star which has a gondola), and one in Chilliwack (about an hour east of Vancouver). This is in addition to the S2S gondola in Squamish.

Any perceived loss in value can be mitigated with activities, amenities and regular events.

 

[AdironRider]

In regards to terrain, generally yes trams can cover more, but I’m sure there are exceptions to the rule so to speak.

 

[thebigo]

I’m also not convinced the draw of a tram is worth the cost. If they were, I would expect to see more of them.

Depending on the source BW spent something around $30M for the summit lodge and gondola. I refuse to believe a tram leading to the current dump of a summit building is a more valuable asset for the state of NH compared to a modern summit facility served by a low capacity gondola.