attn Belleayre skiers

[ts01]

A lot of information on disputes re Belleayre expansion, here:
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=6710

Please don't be shy letting your voice be heard on this in Albany; info in that FirstTracks thread on how to do so.

Apologies if this has already been covered here - I searched and couldn't find anything recent.

 

[dmc]

I've certainly contacted my representatives about this unfair practice of boosting Belleayre with tax payers $..

Unfair competition... Hurts villages in the Catskills using my tax dollars...

not cool...

 

[ts01]

So no more public golf courses or tennis courts, b/c taxpayer $$ is unfair comp to the privates? I'm glad to see some public money in skiing, because I don't want it to be limited to wealthy condo owners at Stratton etc. It's a tough issue but I think it's a mistake to assume its a zero-sum game; I'm happy to see the state helping grow the market. After all NY has more ski resorts than any other state.

I guess we've got to to disagree though, or else Greg will crack down on the "no politics" rule.

FWIW, if Belleayre wasn't there I would not be skiing Hunter or Windham on a regular basis, I'd be going to the Berkshires. So Belleayre actually keeps my ski dollars in NY state - lots of Belleayre trips, plus occasional Plattekill and Windham.

 

[dmc]

There's a ton of unfair advantage a State run facility gets over private.... It's not 0 sum..
Start with insurance breaks.. Payroll breaks.. And then top it off with tax dollars...

All I'm asking for is a level playing field in the Catskills. Especially now with the economy tanking..
Give $ to Belleyare... OK.. But then offer something to the private run areas to compensate...

Maybe I'll get the guy that works at the summit lodge at Hunter to write a cool article.. Seems to sway a few people..

Your an obvious Hunter hater... And that's cool.. not everyone likes the steep terrain and can deal with aggressive skiers...

But think about the advantage - it's just not fair..

I'd rather have a choice on where my $ goes... I like Hunter... You like Bell.. Cool... You spend your $ there - I spend it here...

 

[ski_resort_observer]

So no more public golf courses or tennis courts, .

What golf courses and/or tennis courts receive state money?

 

[dmc]

What golf courses and/or tennis courts receive state money?

There's a bunch... There's parks and stuff too...
http://nysparks.state.ny.us/golf/list.asp?txtCourse=&txtReg=&Opt=1&GF=Null&sortBy=0


But these places are not major economic factors in small communities..

It just a talking point.. I've heard it before... Apples and oranges to me..

 

[ts01]

I disagree that the private operators should get state money to "compete" with the state facility. Wasn't Belleayre there before Hunter and Windham decided to open? Weren't they aware of Belleayre as they made their own economic decisions? We're not going to agree, but they'll settle it somewhere in a backroom in Albany I guess so it won't matter what we think anyway.

If the state could do something to enhance the ski industry statewide to draw skiers to NY state, I'd be all in favor. I just don't think they should cut back on Belleayre, or Gore or Whiteface; but something for the good of all areas including Hunter and Windham would be fine by me.

BTW, your comment "that's cool.. not everyone likes the steep terrain and can deal with aggressive skiers..." is nonsense. I'm not going to argue that Belleayre has steeper terrain but you have never seen me ski, nor have I posted that I don't like steep terrain or can't deal with aggressive skiers. Many discussions on these types of forums can descend into pointless macho posturing, and I have no interest.

 

[dmc]

Cool... I'm macho... big time... But more often then not... People ski Belleayre because of it's terrain - which is not as steep as Hunter and due to the mellowness of the skiers...

I have friends that live in sight of Belleayre that get season passes to Hunter... Because of the terrain

Just even the playing field - thats all I ask...

Tony's a good guy.. I want what he's doing to succeed!

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I've certainly contacted my representatives about this unfair practice of boosting Belleayre with tax payers $..

Unfair competition... Hurts villages in the Catskills using my tax dollars...

not cool...

Well maybe NY State can buy Hunter and turn it into a nicer town..

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I also like the fact that Belleayre has a longer season than Hunter..JEA!!! And more natural snow..New Yorks Winter Sports Park..

 

[dmc]

I also like the fact that Belleayre has a longer season than Hunter.

You welcome...


My tax $ at work...

 

[ed-drum]

Isn't it funny that I meet a LOT of locals who ski at Belleayre because they are fed up with Windham and Hunter? Maybe it's because Hunter has too many cops bothering the locals, pulling them over and arresting them in their driveways? Maybe it's because Windham has too many gapers with fancy clothes with an attitude? Maybe it's because a lot of people have broken suspensions on their cars due to a pot-holed parking lot at Hunter? Plattekill has discount days and it's private. Well, the food at Belleayre sucks, the terrain sucks, the lodge is too small and smells, and their brand new lift broke more than once last year. Maybe I should be lumped into the can't handle the steep terrain at Hunter crowd! To me Hunter isn't steep enough. Blockbuster at Plattekill is steeper. Is Hunter being sold? I've heard just rumors. ALL ski areas have drawbacks.

 

[deadheadskier]

Does Plattekill really get 240 inches of snow a season?

 

[ed-drum]

Yes, Plattekill gets dumped on because it's part of the mountain range that is in direct line with the lake effect snow from the Great Lakes. (Orographic lifting) I've skied there in April with 4"-8" of new snow and Hunter only gets 1"-2" from the same storm. Bearpen gets even more.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Does Plattekill really get 240 inches of snow a season?

No way...maybe 140-150 inches

 

[drewfidelic]

There's nothing wrong with choosing to ski at Belleayre instead of Hunter or Windham. But should state agency responsible for subsidizing development at the state-owned ski area also be responsible for regulating its competitors?

Do state golf courses lose money year after year and then receive millions of dollars in state subsidies to expand?

The ski areas contribute siginificantly to the economy of the surrounding area-- and the proposed development would help Belleayre without incentivizing development anywhere else in the northern Catskills.

NY Taxpayers for Equality

Plattekill statement
________
LITTLE PRETEEN

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Go Belleayre...the new high speed quad is great..yes it's on the flatter side of the hill but the the better side is less crowded...lots of fun high speed cruisers and bumps at Belleayre...New Yorks Winter Snow Park...and the prices at Belleayre are great,,,I pay alot of taxes to NY through gas, lodging, food and tolls and it's nice to get something back..

 

[ts01]

I have way more sympathy for the guy at Plattekill than Hunter and Windham, though I don't think it's fair for him to attribute everything to ticket prices at Belleayre. There were plenty of times I would have paid more to ski Plattekill than Belleayre over the past couple of winters, but the conditions just weren't there. In fact I've driven to the base of Plattekill, seen the brown up close, and turned back disappointed to Belleayre. I would pay lots more to ski there on a regular basis than Belleayre, if they managed to maintain a decent base. Plattekill has superior terrain (DUH) and when it's good its the best I've skied south of Mad River. Maybe it's a chicken and egg problem - if they undertook the kind of snowmaking improvements we saw at Mt Snow this year, they would be the skier's mountain near New York, bar none. Better than Mt Snow, in fact. And I bet many skiers would spend more time (and money) there.

So, should that change my view on this legislation?

 

[JimG.]

In this day and age when fuel oil this winter might cost me $5 a gallon, it's BS to use my taxpayer money to fund the development of a ski area.

The relative merits of one area over another are totally irrelevant.

 

[marcski]

There's nothing wrong with choosing to ski at Belleayre instead of Hunter or Windham. But should state agency responsible for subsidizing development at the state-owned ski area also be responsible for regulating its competitors?

Do state golf courses lose money year after year and then receive millions of dollars in state subsidies to expand?

I'm not sure about other places, but in nyc, they lease the a lot of the public courses out to a private company that manages the courses. From what I understand, they are extremely successful.